Group or individual and political ideology

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Kranes56, Aug 28, 2011.

  1. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    What do you think is more powerful, the group or the individuall? And what is your political ideology?
     
  2. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    100 guns pointed at 1 will probably win regardless that the 1 may well be 100% correct.

    group ignorance generally wins out.
     
  3. Daybreaker

    Daybreaker Well-Known Member

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    The individual.

    I'm a bleeding-heart, green-economy liberal.
     
  4. KSigMason

    KSigMason Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    The individual and I'm a staunch conservative with libertarian leanings.
     
  5. Object227

    Object227 Well-Known Member

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    A group of individuals will be more powerful than any one individual (strength in numbers) but this is nothing more than an observation with no moral implication.
    Ideologically, I will classify myself as a Capitalist.
     
  6. Daybreaker

    Daybreaker Well-Known Member

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    Wait. How are we measuring "power?" Not that my answer would change, I was just wondering.
     
  7. BTeamBomber

    BTeamBomber Well-Known Member

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    The individual funding the group and manipulating their ideology. My ideology involves ignoring the right/left scripts and thinking about every issue in the most common sense way possible, leading to (on most occasions) solutions that neither side observes or seemingly ever comes up with.
     
  8. maat

    maat Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So, why do you promote strong central government?

    SS/medicare, medicaid, welfare, unemployment and federal student loans are all group based/forced provisions for an individuals personal food, clothing, shelter, healthcare and education.
     
  9. Daybreaker

    Daybreaker Well-Known Member

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    Well, basically, I think that some portion of the economy should be under the control of democratically-appointed representation rather than private interests. I don't know exactly how big a portion, just some portion.

    I believe that the government should be a resource, not an authority. I believe that government only exists to create an environment in which individual freedoms can flourish, but that it does have the responsibility to do exactly that.

    As the government is representative of the people, I do believe that government is actually capable of being a good thing for the people. I think that's where I'm at odds with the libertarians, who appear to see the government as a bigger threat to individual freedom than private interests.

    And as for welfare ... well, I think that well-fed people have a much easier time being free, and hungry people have a much more difficult time being free. Extend that to the basic necessities (food, shelter, medicine, education), and this is what I think government should make available in the interest of greater practical individual freedom.

    But the whole thing only works so long as the individuals that make up society choose to involve themselves as benign forces in each others' lives, voluntarily, of their own free will. I don't think you can make a government regulation that will suddenly turn us all into kind-hearted people, or anything, and so welfare and social security and public schools will only be good things so long as individuals choose to make them so.

    I mean, we all certainly have the power of ruining them, don't we?
     
  10. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    Which one you think would better in most situations.
     
  11. Object227

    Object227 Well-Known Member

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    Your position derives from the same principle that rationalizes any and all forms and degrees of dictatorship which is ironic given your next statement:

    Now we have a contradiction. Govt control of the economy in whole or in part diminishes individual freedom. You need to explain yourself.
     
  12. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    I think I can explain. While Day recongizes the postives the induvidial has, he also recongizes the negatives the induvidal has.
     
  13. maat

    maat Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  14. Object227

    Object227 Well-Known Member

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    Well that clears it up nicely.
     
  15. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    That (power) is dependent upon the 'connection' to others achieved within a given society... AND the reasonableness and practicality or actual efficacy of the ideas and philosophies communicated.

    For example... the notion that Social Security should be scrubbed for a commercialized system, might (by some slight possibility) be useful... but that has NOT been communicated to the greater majority of Americans. There are certain individuals and groups who are trying to make it commercialized, but the idea and efficacy of the same, has not been 'sold' to the people.

    So, as I implied above (and as MLK Jr. claimed), there is no stopping an idea, whose time has come. One man can do a great deal in this world; and (even) a large group promoting the WRONG thing(s) at an inappropriate time... will fail in their purpose or cause.
     
  16. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    Awesome then.
     
  17. Object227

    Object227 Well-Known Member

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    Well not really. I was being sarcastic.

    Seriously, Shouldn't Daybreaker speak for himself?
     
  18. Dr. Righteous

    Dr. Righteous Well-Known Member

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    What the OP is referring to is Individualism Vs. Collectivism. Collectivism prioritizes the group over the individual, ie. group rights are made superior to individual rights so that laws can be made for the greater good of the greater number, or for the greater good of the state.

    Collectivism has taken on many ugly forms, including fascism, communism, totalitarianism, American Liberalism, American Neo-conservatism, socialism, Nazism, Keynesianism, etc. All of these economic and social theories de-emphasize the importance of individual liberties in sacrifice for the greater good. It is the reason our country is so messed up today.

    Individualism is the only antidote for our problems, but sadly most Americans do not view politics as an individualist vs. collectivist issue, rather a Liberal vs Neo-conservative issue, etc. It's really Collectivist Stance #1 vs. Collectivist stance #2, and the individualist stance is never given the opportunity to be heard. That's why we keep electing Democrats and Republicans, both collectivist parties, both ruining the country more and more every day.

    As Ayn Rand once said, the individual is the smallest minority. And it is also the most oppressed minority.
     
    maat and (deleted member) like this.
  19. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    Well, that's my opinion of what Day thinks.
     

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