Hamas fires rockets at Israel

@Pisa,

"Soviet rhetoric". "Communist". Or any other label you choose has no more bearing on understanding where I came from than any other traditions from West or East which I have studied to actually learn about the one closest to my heart, namely the Iranian traditions. On the latter, here are some random thoughts that I want to share which will hopefully throw more accurate light on my version of the truth -- so much of it covered by darkness and falsehood.

In Iranian mythology and historiography, based on the Avesta and the collection of myths, legends, and history represented in Iran's epic, the Shahnameh (about which I posted an introductory article earlier), history of the Iranian peoples (who would include all the people of not just Iran, but Europe and much of the ME), the Aryans were a 'noble' people who had embraced the message of Zoroaster. The term was not an 'ethnic term' per se, although the Iranians did speak an "Iranian language" just as the other two sons of the mythical Shah or King Fereydun, who didn't embrace that message. The ones who did, descendants of another son, Iraj, were called Aryans (basically synonymous to Iranian). The two other groups who were descended supposedly from Fereydun also spoke Iranian languages, one group being given a realm that covered much of Eurasia and the Near East outside of IRAN, the other given a realm deep in the eastern corners of what is now Central Asia (TURAN). This before the arrival of the Turkic tribes from further east (the Far East), even if Turan eventually became confused in later Iranian mythology with Turkic and Turko-Mongol peoples and lands.

Following this mythology, and combining it with what we know from linguistics, archaeology and subsequent written history, the speakers of the Iranian languages who weren't technically part of ancient IRAN were basically the Scythians. The latter, even then, and subsequently by Greeks and Romans, in terms that resembles most the "Aryans" of Nazi folklore: tall, with reddish or blonde hair, a 'barbarian' race who spoke Iranian languages. The actual "Aryans" (Iranians) who took the name for themselves, on the other hand, even in ancient times didn't appear distinguishable in appearance for anyone to even describe them! The Greeks wrote books, had plays, and many other accounts, dealing with the Persians; much of the Histories of Herodotus is about the Persians and their customs. But remarkably, given how these same sources often describe the physical appearance of many people (including the Scythians) there is absolutely no mention whatever (not a word) on the physical appearance of these people (who regarded themselves as "a Persian, son of a Persian, of Aryan (Iranian) descent). But a lot of detail, much of it complementary, of their cultural habits including a zeal for telling the truth, courage and such other positive qualities. The same is true even by the time of the Romans and Byzantines, who may have left clues about the physical appearance of the Scythian-Iranian tribe that ruled Iran under the Parthians, but nothing about their successors, the Sassanids, who were Persian and (unlike the Parthians) enjoyed the upper hand in their wars against Rome -- wars which had been raging between Iran and Rome for roughly 800 years.

It seems, at least me quite clearly, that the "Iranian people" from early on included two groups who spoke related languages but who weren't necessarily physically alike. Those among them, regardless of physical appearance, who adopted the teachings of Zoroaster were referred to as 'Aryans' (noble people), while the barbarian and warlike Scythians (who the Slavs, including the Russians, descended from and who are probably the vehicle for an even earlier introduction of "Indo-European languages" to Europe) held to pre-Zoroastrian Iranian beliefs and deities. The rest of the Iranian people, those who adopted the term "Aryan" for themselves, were not all that physically remarkable for anyone in ancient Greece or Rome to describe in such terms.

Besides the Iranian plateau which eventually became IRAN (land of Aryans), these Iranian peoples more generally had migrated to western Europe, the Near East, as well as conquered the pre-Aryan civilizations of the Indus (India). The Ashkenaz were one of them -- one of those groups who had previously followed ancient, pre-Zoroastrian, Iranian creeds but who had been converted to Judaism.

But the same way, a corrupted understanding of the message of Zoroaster, or rather one that was mixed in with the Semitic tales of other peoples in the Middle East from a different lineage, produced the basis for the Abrahamic religions, a corrupted understanding of this Iranian mythology (mixed in with advances made at the time in linguistic and related fields) laid the foundations for what became a horrific ideology in the West.

In the 19th century, a man who had become a 'specialist' in ancient Iranian religions and languages of Central Asia in particular, by the name of Comte de Gobineau, and who served as France's ambassador to Iran, wrote a book called: On the Inequality of Races. Gobineau, like all northern Europeans of his time, were looking for something to establish the 'superiority' that a brief moment in history had bestowed to northern Europeans. After all, before basically the 17th and 18th centuries, human civilization didn't really revolve around these "northern Europeans" as much. Not even "Western civilization", whose roots were traced to what by the time of the ascendancy of these northern Europeans had become impoverished backwaters in Greece and Italy, provided much "justification" for any belief that Northern Europeans were somehow a 'superior race'. So Gobineau set out to prove that actually all human civilization everywhere was the result of the "Aryan race", which to him resembled the Nordics he wanted to promote. And the decline of civilization, according to Gobineau, was the result of the mixture of this "Aryan race" with other races.

Never mind that Gobineau's theories involved more fallacy than any history, they became the cornerstone of Nazi folklore and ideology even though Gobineau himself was not anti-Semitic or anti-Jewish per se. Indeed, Gobineau himself probably didn't regard the Askhenazi Jews as being true Semites. Fortunately for IRAN (the land of Aryans) the Nazi folklore exempted us from Hitler's Nuremberg laws and such other affronts to humanity, even though the Persians clearly didn't look like the "Nordics" Nazi ideology stood on a pedestal! Indeed, even taking away the "Aryan term" from this new mythology, and just focusing on the Nordic element within the "Iranian people" (most visible among the Scythians), because this ideology was fundamentally an attempt to justify or explain the "rightful" supremacy of the newest edition to a long series of 'elites' in the world, this ideology somehow became anti-Russian and anti-Slavic as well! This despite the fact that the entire "Nordic" element that may have existed within the "Iranian peoples" was basically from descriptions of the Scythians!

Nazi ideology, thankfully, was defeated and after WWII. But the attempts to explain history in racist terms persist, even though the horrors of that ideology also gave impetus to a much more humane, and humanistic ideology, namely western liberal ideology, to emerge as well in juxtaposition to those attempts. But some of those who, in this moment of history, see themselves as being the more powerful, the more advanced, and the more successful, have of course tried to give their privileges a racist component still. The modern day racists have largely (not all of them) embraced the Jews, and partnered with them, and they are now focused on another enemy. The enemy that they see as less advanced, less cultured, as inferior. They have identified that enemy in "Islam" and that includes now the people who even today (despite their Islamic faith) still cling to the memory and many of the traditions of the ancient Iranians. Traditions and beliefs, that if ever freed, whether within or in the outside world, of all its corruptions, still represent the most ethical and most hopeful path to human beings coexisting with one another while searching for the light of truth and justice -- with the faith that choosing the side of good against evil -- the side of truth against falsehood and justice against injustice -- is really the only ideological struggle that has meaning. This because in the true Zoroastrian tradition, the cosmic battle between good and evil isn't just a show whose outcome is ultimately foreordained under an all powerful deity: it is a struggle in which each of us has a role to play. Our role to choose good against evil and truth against falsehood. And by those choices, we ultimately help decide which is to prevail. Truth or falsehood. Good or evil.

Anyway, this story has a lot more layers than I can share here. But this is the outlook that ultimately affects how I view things. And it is also the outlook that distinguishes for me ideologies that try to justify the present fortunate circumstances of some and which try to preserve them against others.

 

And as you know, the Arabs have cursed the earth with :

Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, Gaza Strip and West Bank
Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya, Egypt
Al-Qaeda, worldwide
Al-Shabaab, Somalia
Ansar al-Islam, Iraq
Ansar al-sharia, Libya
Armed Islamic Group (GIA), Algeria
Caucasus Emirate (IK), Russia
Egyptian Islamic Jihad, Egypt
Great Eastern Islamic Raiders' Front (IBDA-C), Turkey
Hamas, Gaza Strip and West Bank
Harkat-ul-Mujahideen al-Alami, Pakistan
Hezbollah, Lebanon
Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, Uzbekistan
Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, worldwide
Jaish-e-Mohammed, Pakistan and Kashmir
Jamaat Ansar al-Sunna, Iraq
Lashkar-e-Taiba, Pakistan and Kashmir
Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, Pakistan
Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group, Morocco and Europe
Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Gaza Strip and West Bank
Tawhid and Jihad, Iraq

 

I don't recall any Jewish group fighting against Jews ethnic cleansing around.

 

You question was... Q - when you see Islamic Jihad, ISIS, Black September, Boko Haram - do these actors represent ALL Arabs?

And I replied to that... that the biggest group of victims are Muslims, and the biggest group fighting against them are Muslims. And that you don't see any Jews fighting Jews to stop them from ethnic cleansing. Your reply to that doesn't put a dent into that.

 

After the war of Independence the newly established Israeli government went to war against some
of these Jewish terror groups.
Surprising to me - these Jewish groups and their tactics were inspiration for other terror groups,
including Mandela in South Africa, the Irish Republic Army and even various Communist groups.
What you learn when you look things up.

These groups were as bad as each other
https://www.wrmea.org/006-may-june/hamas-a-pale-image-of-the-jewish-irgun-and-lehi-gangs.html


1947: A Year of Terror
Jan. 12—Four killed by Irgun terrorist bombing of British headquarters.
Jan. 13—Arab kidnapped and castrated by Jewish terrorists.
March 1—Sixteen Britons killed by Jewish terrorists/Britain invokes martial law
March 10—Jewish informer killed by Jewish terrorists.
March 11—Two British soldiers killed by Jewish terrorists.
April 8—British constable killed by Jewish terrorists.
April 8—Jewish boy killed by British troops.
April 8—Jew beaten to death by Arabs.
April 22—Eight killed in Jewish terrorist bombing of the Cairo-Haifa train.
April 25—Five killed in Jewish terrorist bombing of British camp.
April 26—British police official killed by Jewish terrorist.
May 8—Three Jewish shops in Tel Aviv whose owners refused to contribute to Jewish terrorist groups burned down by Jewish terrorists.
May 8—Jew killed near Tel Aviv by Arab terrorists.
May 12—Two British policemen killed in Jewish Jerusalem.
May 15—British policeman killed in terrorist ambush.
May 15—Two British soldiers killed in terrorist Stern Gang attack.
May 16—Two British police officers killed by terrorists.
May 18—One Jew killed, one wounded by Arab terrorists.
June 5—Jewish terrorists introduce letter bombs in Middle East.
June 28—Four British soldiers killed in Jewish terrorist raids.
July 3—“Anti-terrorist” Jewish families beaten up by Irgunists.
July 18—British soldier killed by Jewish terrorists.
July 19—Another British soldier killed by Jewish terrorists.
July 20—Yet another British soldier killed by Jewish terrorists.
July 23—65 Jews killed when Haganah sinks immigration ship.
July 26—Two British soldiers killed in booby trap.
July 29—Three Jews executed by hanging. Jewish terrorists retaliate by hanging two British soldiers.
Aug. 5—Three British police killed by bomb; plot discovered to poison the water supply of non-Jewish parts of Jerusalem with botulism and other bacteria.
Aug. 10—Four Jews killed in Arab terror attack on Tel Aviv café.
Aug. 12—Five Jews, four Arabs killed, others injured, in spread of violent incidents over three days.
Aug. 15—Twelve Palestinians killed in raid by Haganah troops.
Aug. 18—Shops of five Jews in Tel Aviv destroyed by Jewish terrorists.
Aug. 23—Five Arabs of one family—two men, a woman and two children—killed by Jewish terrorists.
Sept. 7—French foil Stern Gang plot to air bomb London.
Sept. 21—British messenger killed by Jewish terrorists.
Sept. 26—Four British policemen killed in Irgun terrorist bank robbery.
Sept. 27—Illegal Jewish immigrant killed by British.
Sept. 29—13 killed, 53 wounded in Irgun terrorist attack on British police station.
Oct. 4—Two Jews killed in ambush, two Arabs killed in retaliation.
Oct. 13—Two British troops killed by Jewish terrorists in Jerusalem.
Oct. 26—Jewish settlement policeman found killed near Gaza.
Nov. 3—Jewish policeman killed, reportedly by Stern Gang after refusing to reveal secret police matters.
Nov. 12—21 killed in British-Jewish clashes.
Nov. 14—Jewish terrorists kill 4 Britons in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv
Nov. 30—Violent riots erupt throughout Arab world following adoption of U.N. partition plan. In Palestine, seven Jews killed and eight wounded in the first day. All told, during the first week at least 159 persons were killed in the Middle East, 66 of them in Palestine.
Dec. 2—Palestinians begin 3-day protest strike; 20 Jews, 15 Arabs killed. Five Arabs and seven Jews were killed the next day during a six-hour battle on the Tel Aviv-Jaffa border.
Dec. 13—35 Palestinian civilians killed in Jewish terrorist attacks.
Dec. 14—14 Jews killed by Arab Legion in retaliation.
Dec. 18—Palmach (“assault companies”) kills 10 Arabs, including 5 children, in nighttime raid on northern Galilee village of Khissas. The following day Haganah troops blew up the home of the village elder of Qazaza in central Palestine, killing several inhabitants. Wrote The Times of London: “While the Jews are suffering mainly through sniping at their road convoys, the Arabs have lost many lives through Jewish assaults on their villages.”
Dec. 20—Haganah raid on village of Qazaza kills one Palestinian.
Dec. 24—Stern Gang member killed for betrayal of another member.
Dec. 25—16 Arabs, Jews and British killed on Christmas.
Dec. 25—Palestinian landowner killed for selling land to Jews.
Dec. 26—Ben-Gurion proposes major offensive to reduce Arab population.
Dec. 26—Jewish terrorists get $107,000 in heists of diamond plants.
Dec. 29—14 Arabs killed by Irgun bomb in Jerusalem.
Dec. 29—Irgun flogs British major and three sergeants.
Dec. 30—41 Jews, 6 Arabs killed in riot sparked by Stern Gang.
Dec. 31—Irgun claims to have killed 374 Arabs and British during year.

 

You say that, and source nothing. Other than that,... the homeland of the Jew government you name, they made it illegal for Arab civilians to return for being Arab, and made it legal to thieve the lands of those Arabs civilians banned from returning because of being Arab. They Jew government obviously is totally supportive of the ethnic cleansing that the Jews committed. So I still nothing of the sort that Jews fought against these war crimes. They support this, they profit from this. Kind of it.

 

it's interesting. I am not into a lot of this history, but just Googling "Irgun", the main
Jewish terror group, I got this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun

Also, something I found by accident in the 1967 Six Day War - wait for it...
Jordan was paying remittances to many Palestinians. The Palestinians
were told not to stay in "occupied territory" and should they stay their
remittances will be cut off. You can see the systematic program under way
to vacate Arabs from Palestine. Why? Because it would embarrass Israel
diplomatically, damage the Palestinian economy and help to foment future
hatreds.

As for banning the return. Sure, true. But again, not so fast. Israel has said
it would negotiate the return of "refugees" (who were refused citizenship in
their host Arab countries BTW) when and if the Palestinians agree to a
permanent and comprehensive peace treaty. As OSLO showed, that was
never going to happen.

 

FACT: it was illegal under international and UN law for the Arab League States to ban Jewish citizens from leaving the country.

 

Jordan chose to attack Israel in 1967. Israel urged them to stay out of the war but Jordan instead chose to shell western jerusalem. So they lost the West Bank, which they STOLE from the Palestinians in 1948.

 

Palestinians suicide bombers who blow up buses and markets full of Jewish women and children are hailed as heroes. Fact.

 

if not for Arab anti-Semitism and persecution against their Jewish citizens, there would still be hundreds of thousands of Jews in the Arab world.

no group leaves their homeland en mass, unless they are forced out by govt. persecution, massive poverty, or environmental disaster.

 

actually, millions of Palestinian refugees and their descendants are citizens of their host nations.

all the residents of the West Bank were given Jordanian citizenship in 1950.

almost all Palestinian refugees in Jordan are Jordanian citizens.

hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon were made citizens.

 

Forgot to add this.
The new Israeli government went after these terror groups. They had to lay down their
arms or be captured or killed. This ship was the Altelana - it nearly started a civil war
between the new govt and Irgun, a terrorist org. Israel handed over some of these
terrorists (who had killed Arabs) to the British to be hung.






So in the 1948 war there was no govt of Israel, just settlements, towns and
various militias.

 

You know, been thinking about that. 'Cos in 1948 and 1967 wars the Arab states
refused to accept Palestinians as citizens. It was a political thing - let the Palestinians
rot in refugee camps and blame it on Israel. Must look that up.

 

And according to @notme , refugees lose their right to return when they accept citizenship from a different country.

so that means millions of Palestinain refugees in Jordan and Lebanon no longer have the right of return

 

IDF pilots who bomb Arab women and children are hailed as heroes. Fact.
p.s.
Save the "collateral damage" argument for someone who doesn't know better. Israel wasn't bombing Christian towns in Lebanon in the 2006 war looking for any "Hezbollah fighters" hiding among civilians! As Israel's own Winograd Commission conceded, that was a tactic by Israel to exact a price on other Lebanese communities to make them blame Hezbollah for their problems and to isolate Hezbollah within Lebanon. The same thing behind the not so veiled attempts now against Lebanon itself in case of a Hezbollah war with Israel.

Those who engage in war are engaged in bringing death and destruction to achieve political objectives. If they can achieve those objectives killing fewer people, and seeing fewer of their own killed, they might do that. If those objectives are helped by targeting civilians, unfortunately, that is what is done. Throughout history. The ones who have done this at a mass scale are those who bombed Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and also Dresden.

While efforts to devise some genuine "moral code of conduct" from an exercise like war (which involves intentionally killing people) is a bit disingenuous regardless, I personally oppose any 'tactic' that cannot reasonably be expected to succeed in achieving a just political objective and merely results in death and destruction of any kind and, especially, of women and children. That is why the tactics used at time in the past by some of those fighting Israel, hypocritically condemned by those who cheer much greater acts of violence against other women and children, is something I ultimately condemn too.

 

You can check these claims on the Internet - look up Israeli news and Hezbollah news.

1 -Israel claimed they killed between 500 and 700 Hezbollah fighters (in a racist war Hezbollah started BTW)
2 - Hezbollah claimed these were "civilians" and no Hezbollah fighters were killed.
3 - Later Hezbollah held a commemorative service for 600 Hezbollah fighters who died fighting the Jews.

You might also look up how Hezbollah has planted utterly THOUSANDS of rockets INSIDE THE HOMES OF
PEOPLE CLOSE TO THE BORDER WITH ISRAEL. These people are given some sort of incentive for this.
Look it up.

Also, look up how under the UN peace agreement, Hezbollah was not to militarize the border, or accept
weapons from Iran. There are now somewhere between 130,000 and 150,000 missiles in Lebanon.

Also, look up how Hezbollah fired anti-tank weapons at IDF forces. And how Israel faked the death or injury
of these soldiers. Why????!!!! To give Hezbollah some satisfaction they had killed Jews, and might not fire
more missiles. Hezbollah called Israel out on this "fake news" - but the motive of the two sides is interesting,
isn't it? This happened last month.

 

I wonder how the Israel Defense Force manages to kill civilians only?
I mean, here are these Hezbollah and Hamas terrorists (sorry, innocent freedom fighters)
protecting their citizens. Some say these goons put civilians in the way to make Israel
look bad and protect themselves, but anyway....

And the IDF still manages to get these civilians.
??????!!!!!!!!

Maybe the IDF has specially designed Civilian Munition that can weave around Hamas and
Hezbollah terrorists, (sorry, freedom fighters) and get these women and children? We know
the IDF has guided missiles, and we know America is developing guided bullets - so maybe
the sons of pigs and monkeys (sorry, I mean the Jews) have guided bullets, and maybe
guided shrapnel that can just get the innocents and leave the freedom fighters alone?

I mean, we just know that no Arab, in the whole world, would ever think of killing an innocent
civilian.

BTW, this photo is of some Qassam rockets that Hamas fired at the town of Sderot in Southern
Israel. It was intended to kill or terrorize civilians.

 

Every people of every nation have a right to fight for the lands they lost to an occupying power. Its their natural duty and have an obligation to do so. Its not a sin to kill Israelis or to behead them or to blow them up using road bombs. Palestinians who engage in these acts are doing the right thing ...the good thing.. . Many are child heroes who will live forever in the minds of the people of Palestine..

 

They didn't leave en mass.. They left over a period of 30 years... because of European Zionism.

 

When it comes to the 2006 war, go study serious studies, even by Israelis sources but more so by neutral ones, and stop reading propaganda. One of the main focus of Israeli attacks was to hurt areas of Lebanon with no Hezbollah presence, to have them blame Hezbollah for unleashing the war that was bringing them misery and isolating it politically. An objective in which they failed, as Israel Winograd commission would itself admit.

And Israel isn't threatening to destroy Lebanon if there is a war with Hezbollah because Hezbollah is hiding troops in Christian or Sunni areas of Lebanon!

The casualty figures for the 2006 war by independent sources, and sources even in Israel who aren't engaged in propaganda, will tell you what you need to know.

Anyway, I have to leave for now, but if you want to know about actual Hezbollah fighters and where Israel could find them, they were fighting the Israelis in the front line in places like in Bint Jbeil. Read about the Battle of Bint Jbeil and notice how a few hundred Hezbollah fighters were able to win a battle against a much larger Israeli force spearheaded by their 'elite' Golani Brigade. If you read carefully about that battle, you will understand a lot since here was an actual force from Hezbollah fighting Israel. And reading about it, you may notice how much Israel simply lies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bint_Jbeil
Battle of Bint Jbeil

As for Israel's 2006 war, the Wikipedia page will also do:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Lebanon_War
2006 Lebanon War

 

The Jewish terror gangs formed in 1920. They even killed count Bernadotte who saved 30,000 Jews from the Holocaust.

 

Yeah, some bad eggs. The upside for the Arabs was that they could judge
all Israel by them.
The Israelis handed over to the British some of these Jewish terrorists, knowing
they would be hanged. So feelings ran pretty high.

 

Wrmea is virulently anti-Zionist. The article is full of omissions, half-truths, and outright lies. We're given a supposed quote from Ben Gurion, but no source. We're not told about the Arab riots of 1929 - massacres of Jews in Silwan or Hebron. We're not told that those Jews couldn't defend themselves because the British didn't allow Jews (and only Jews) to own and carry weapons. We're not told about the targeting of British forces by Arabs during the Arab revolt of '36-'39. It's unethical journalism at its highest (or is it lowest?) level.