How Do you Feel Now?

Interesting. It's kind of like a hybrid because the State essentially seizes it from departure forceably and gives it to private individuals.

 

What does this have to do with my post about cooperative enterprises?

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The state doesn't "seize" anything. If the workers vote NOT to purchase the company before it leaves, nothing happens. It's a democratic process, that's the idea of cooperative enterprises. No share holders/CEO/Board of Directors making decisions for everyone, and not the government. Truly a system for the people, by the people.

 

So the cure is to make all the robots part owners in the business that "They" replaced the human workers in ?

This is so well thought thru it's stunning! Thank the great God Tobor the left lost this cycle!

 

Actually, there is no real barrier between worker and employer, in the sense that anyone can be either. It is their choice. And of course there doesn't need to be a "versus" about it - an employee works for a company not just to perform some task, but to help the company to succeed and gain personally from that. Beyond that, with a free system, there is also entrepreneurship and self-employment to consider. I'm not an employee myself, but rather work with clients on an independent basis. No collective, no government interference. There's a need and I work to fulfill it in exchange for a market rate of remuneration. I see no reason to change this.

As for factories, why give them to the workers? They're not going to be able to handle all of the administration and negotiation with customers who want what the factory is producing - it's better to have people dedicated to those tasks, and it's important to have some kind of a corporation to manage funds and organize all of these people and their efforts so that things run smoothly. Leadership and administration are of the utmost importance. But I'm curious about the examples you've mentioned. I guess I'm not sure what exactly your alternative proposal here would look like in detail.

 

i just bring up unions because you seem to care about workers rights. Nothing wrong with that... heck in a perfect world i agree with you. you just have to figure out a way to eliminate greed from the species.

personally i like free market capitalism more as it rewards the harder and more dedicated workers more consistantly. I like competition too.

Dont confuse capitalism with crony capitalism. capitalism is a beautiful thing. crony capitalism is ugly. The trick to keeping capitalism in tact is to limit government and in effect limit corruption. Thats a big reason why our constitution is so important and should never...ever be considered a "Living" document that bends with the political winds. this quickly becomes a slippery slope which results in chaos... like we have all witnessed recently.

 

Exactly, the worker is squeezed to provide as MUCH work (or profit) as possible for as LITTLE compensation as possible. That means they are always in a permanent conflict against each others interests. You'd still be able to create own business and go it alone if that's what you wish, but you're not in the group suffering from capitalism, so of course you see no reason to change it. You do your thing in whatever system exists.

Of course, everyone has their own place in a cooperative, mechanics stay mechanics, human resources stays human resources, etc. All that changes is ownership, bringing democracy (which every American says they love) into the workplace. Want to move this company overseas to avoid paying more in labor costs and wages? Let's vote on that.....want to build something that pollutes our local river? Let's vote on that. Most workers want to come to work, do their job, and be able to live. Capitalism has stifled this for 50% of the workforce who ARE employees.

 

Not allowing companies to move assets and giving it to others is seizure.

I think the idea is immoral. I don't think it fixes automation and foreign companies would never come over with those harsh rules.

I doubt I see a better system than capitalism in my lifetime. It has its faults but, its based on private free choice. I also feel capitalism and our system is rooted in family as well. That has a lot of economics attached to it.

 

crony capitalism has not capitalism. the problem is our government got to big and to corrupt. Same can happen with any system.

 

Worker cooperatives are in friendly competition, not cut throat competition. Nobody LOSES in a system of cooperation, with capitalism someone has to lose, it's how the game is played. Without government to regulate capitalism, it will never work for the mass of people. For it to work as it did, we need to either ban automation and institute living wages, or, we let it continue as is and end up with 50% unemployment due to automation.

Unions can be corrupt to, they were the answer to capitalism but have been savaged by capitalism itself.

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With no government, what stops capitalism from eating everyone else? My answer? Direct democracy and cooperative enterprises.

 

Its been replaced with something running down his leg.

 

No, actually taking the company and ending it/nationalizing it can be a seizure. This is protecting the country and stopping outsourcing. The ONE reason companies offshore....to not pay wages. That is unacceptable.

I think having CEO's and wealthy capitalist investors building a company, hiring people, then trying everything it can to pay them as little as possible is immoral.

 

You left out Obama's Whitehouse website promoting the homosexual lifestyle. And building L.A. into a sanctuary city with more illegal aliens in it that some countries have population.

Yes we can...yes we did!

 

You can incentivize and disincentivize to have businesses do what you want but you don't outright seize the assets.

 

if Trump can be a President, a women can be a man...

 

Competition stops capitalism from eating everyone else. The better you are at your job the more your worth.

 

Thw wall build and maybe too NAFTA is incorrekt by current leader Mr Trump.

Maybe 55 percent of whole America expect new president Rubio or Mrs. Clinton.

Whole thing of Hollywood wanted this with America.

But maybe Jay Leno is relaxed with Donald Trump.

It were Cruz, Rubio or another man he wannabee.

 

LOL what did I just write? Read it again! A company wants to move offshore to screw wages in the home country, the government forces them to offer the company to the workers, the workers can say yes we want to buy it, or no we don't. That is CHOICE.

 

This is what you get when you get a serious man, a CEO in the oval office over some lawyer community organizer. He now has his chance to fix what he has been railing against, first as a democrat and now a republican. He hit the ground running, all you see is arse ends and elbows, for he has one monumental job ahead, in fixing what has created so much insecurity and suffering for working americans.

I am looking at the first real president since JFK. And the people who are used to a president not keeping his word are (*)(*)(*)(*)ting all over themselves. They are in total shock along with MSM. They do not know how to handle a man who starting keeping promises even before he took office. A man who is gonna work his arse off in keeping his promises. They will be praying soon to a god they do not believe in, praying that trump stops keeping his promises to the American people. I should have voted for the man, but I thought he was like all of the rest. And get amnesia once he walked into the oval office. If he keeps this up, I will vote for him next time. I am having a hard time believing he turned out like this. We are not used to it here in America. A man working hard to keep his word. Politicians seldom do. So we should never elect another politician again. Only outsiders. This is the only way to get a president who is not owned by the elites.

 

Capitalism eats its competition, and eats consumers. Your version of crony capitalism, is actually just capitalism doing its thing.

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What happened after Herbert Hoover gave corporate interests free reign? I'm looking forward to THAT history repeating itself, which it will.

 

"government forces them to offer the company"

Yeah but that's excessive and infringes on rights.

 

The employees vote to run the company?
Seeing as we have a new president in the biz let's use hotels as an example.
Large hotel is filled with maids and cleaning staff. You think how that hotel is run should be left to maids and janitors? Many cannot even speak English.
Your system seems to be an emotional response to a problem you feel exists. It certainly isn't a logical one.

 

government corruption is what leads capitalism into chrony capitalism. Your going about this the wrong way. You have to find the source of the problem to deal with it. our constitution was created for this very purpose. To limit power. We have just had a lot of increase in corruption and massive growth of government which then leads to more corruption and further crony capitalism.

the fault is not capitalism its government corruption and over-each. that will happen in any system. its why we have all these big corporations forcing out the small up and comers.

 

He brought up cutting 10 trillion in spending over the next decade. If he can do what he says and adds that to the list he is God. Haha.

 

This is why I post here. Look at this fine piece of redneck thoroughbred. He'd die for his country just to give Osama a splinter.

 

in the end they will elect leaders to run the company... next thing you know....the corruption starts... then your back where you started.

Look... your co-op business is basically a microcosm of our american history and political system. Guess what... it got corrupt. if not for our constitution we would be screwed.