How GPs are paid £50 bonus to put elderly on 'death lists'

By the way, the life expectancy in Britain is STILL higher than in the US! Why is that? Apparently NOT because they "have death panels!"

LOLOLOL

 

Go back and re-read the story posted.

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No to save their employers money.

 

I've already post a link to an elderly man being put on the Loverpool Death March without the families permission.

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He suffered from dementia and wouldn't be capable of making a rational decision, but you'd know that if you read what was posted before jumping to conclusions.

 

Of course it is, because it's not measured per 100,000 of population, a simple average is used.

U.S. Population: 313.9 million
England Population: 53.01 million

 

And you have NO IDEA whether he made "advanced directive" prior to, or shortly after having been diagnosed with dementia!

THAT WAS HIS RIGHT, and it is a wonderful thing that he may have had the assistance of a trusted primary care physician who KNEW that his condition was not reversible and that the person he was at that time would soon no longer exist.

People with Alzheimer or dementia are NO LONGER the person they used to be. . .that person dies long before the body dies . . .prolonging the DEATH of those people by forcibly feeding them is NOT prolonging their life. . .it is prolonging the tragedy of the whole family. And THIS is exactly why counseling at the time a person is STILL in the possession of his full abilities is helpful to assure that HIS wishes will be met.

Don't tell me that YOU want to end up spending the last 3 or 4 years of your life defecating in a diaper, stripping in a nursing home full of other people with dementia and their distressed visitors, and not recognizing ONE SINGLE FACE among those who continue to visit you . . . by obligation, and at much emotional cost and trauma, because the SHELL in which the man they loved USED to reside is still laying around as a "living dead!"

If that is your idea of a "dignify" death. . .YOU TOO can indicate YOUR WISH into your advance planning. . . and NO ONE will put an end to your and your family's suffering, until the SHELL that is all that is left of you finally falls apart and the last breath escapes!

 

Are you saying that the statistics do not take into account the number of inhabitants in each countries?

Do you have ANY knowledge of statistical science?

Face it. . .out of all countries, the USA rates 35th in life expectancy!

Why don't you go look at this table that relates all the life expectancy statistics for over 40 countries. . . the "average" life expectancy, the "male" life expectancy, and the "female" life expectancy.

Your statement doesn't even make sense!

 

Neither do you.

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http://repec.kse.org.ua/pdf/KSE_dp47.pdf

Read and learn. It's simple statistics. Having 6X the population increases a persons chances of getting dead in accidents and various other non health related demises. The fact that England has fewer cars and even less guns compared to US only accentuates that fact making a straight across comparison illogical. Especially considering they live only a year longer. unless you can come up with a study that takes into account non-health related deaths in the stats, your argument just went flat.

 

Maybe YOU should read and learn!

The link you provided is discussing ONLY THE INCREASE IN EXPENDITURE as it relates to increase in life expectancy. . .an what it does demonstrate is this:

Maybe you should learn to read your own sources before you present them as a support for your fallacy!

 

Arrant nonsense.

 

Your misunderstanding the study. Richer countries have more of the means to die early. So increased spend in will have little effect on the life expectancy. Having 6X the population increases a persons chances of getting dead in accidents and various other non health related demises. The fact that England has fewer cars and even less guns compared to US only accentuates that fact making a straight across comparison illogical. Especially considering they live only a year longer. unless you can come up with a study that takes into account non-health related deaths in the stats, your argument just went flat.

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Refute it or try another thread and stop trolling.

 

A ridiculous and baseless assertion! SIze of population would have no effect on this.

A little better of a postulation, but very odd for the same people who assert it is NOT "guns" that kill people and knives and baseball bats would be used instead!

Back into la-la land again! What could be "non-health related" to death? Survival of accidents OR illness is just as relevant to a country's healthcare regardless of the violence.

Further, it is quite amusing how the Anti-Obamacare screamers conveniently ignore the OTHER hundred countries with complete government healthcare, of which about 30 or 40 that work BETTER and ALL work for LESS MONEY and cover EVERYBODY!

More ironic comments from trolls with twisted and baseless arguments trying to wiggle out from their positions.

 

You are totally off! There is NOTHING in the study YOU presented that refers to "# of cars" or even "# of guns!" It is all based on demonstrating that increased cost in health care is not directly correlated with an increase in life expectancy IN RICHER COUNTRIES (and, England and the US are BOTH part of the "rich countries" as defined in the study), but does correlate to an increase in life expectancy in the poorest countries.

It has NOTHING to do with what you were trying to demonstrate. . .and your presenting this study in support of your argument is a totally unrelated and moot point.

The fact is that, you are accusing the English system of health care of having "death lists" and PLANNING on terminating the life of elderly people. . .(and stretching this already long, silly concept to try to "warn" US people about the "death lists" in America because of Obamacare), and I pointed out that the life expectancy in the UK is GREATER than in the US (in fact, 34 countries have a greater life expectancy than the US!. . .MOST are in the "RICH COUNTRY" category and spends AT LEAST ⅓ less money on healthcare than the US). . .and that this FACT doesn't seem to demonstrate that the UK health system is "planning to prematurely end the life of the elderly!

In answer to that, you bring in a whole bunch of UNRELATED crap . . . because you don't have ANY logical, factual answer to my comment.

However, (and although it is a TOTALLY UNRELATED SUBJECT, and totally off topic for this thread), I do agree that the number of guns in the US is the cause of many premature deaths. . .But NOT the "number of cars!"

We may have more cars. . .but certainly not more concentration of cars, AND the UK has a LOT MORE public transportation (including buses and underground system) which are not devoid of fatal accidents either!

Don't make a fool of yourself by trying to spin!

And just because you accuse someone of "trolling" doesn't mean your accusations are justified. . .projection, maybe. . .but not truth!

 

Why doesn't he have a point. Several points were made in the OP.

Try not to hurt yourself with a logical explanation.

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Why doesn't he have a point. Several points were made in the OP.

Try not to hurt yourself with a logical explanation.

 

And what do you know, my reading comprehension appears to be vastly superior to yours.

If you cannot comprehend that any "savings" from such a policy are a side effect of a humane, mature and considerate policy that directly benefits the patient, their loved ones and their doctors, and continue to insist its all about saving money then you are just another partisan manipulator of facts.

Like I said before the OP is Just more sensationalist crap to scare the uninformed and the stupid.

 

Please then post a link to all the health related deaths in both countries with their ages and we can compare. Till that's done comparing the two is nothing more than hot gas for the aforementioned reasons.

 

I'm sure you believe that

Again go back and re-read the article, using your "vastly superior reading comprehension"

LOLOL!

Dementia victims 'have twice the risk of dying in hospital while a third are not properly diagnosed by staff'

University professor, 37, dies from lung cancer after string of doctors dismissed symptoms as 'anxiety and depression'

Elderly patients diagnosed with 'acopia' - a disease that does not exist

‘Basic errors in care cause kidney deaths’

Mother-of-three dies of meningitis just five days after being admitted to hospital with EARACHE

Grandmother, 55, died from cervical cancer after her GP dismissed her symptoms as the MENOPAUSE

Girl, two, 'died after doctors failed to talk to each other about MRI scan that showed she had water on the brain'

All these people, the ones that made the news died from mis-diagnosoises. The pensioner in the OP died after 8 days without food and water, how sick could the old man have been besides his dementia? We all get old someday.

 

pro-lifers do not like it when you have an end of life plan as then they then can't tell your loved ones the opposite of what you wanted

.

 

seems its even more vast than I initially thought, churlish tactics notwithstanding.

Be happy in your delusion.

 

So you have no links to back up your assertions? Somehow I knew that.

 

I think "acopia" is a variation of discopia... and means a fragile, elderly person who can't cope...

 

"Discopia" is not in the dictionary. Where are you getting your definition from?

 

From memory.. I think it is used in hospitals by social workers doing discharge planning..

 

Oh look!


the American Medical Association
http://www.ama-assn.org/resources/doc/ethics/resources-in-advance-care-planning.pdf

the Medicare Newsletter
http://www.medicarenewsgroup.com/context/understanding-medicare-blog/understanding-medicare-blog/2013/06/03/time-is-ripe-to-address-end-of-life-care-in-medicare-some-experts-say


the American Psychological Association
http://www.apa.org/pi/aids/programs/eol/end-of-life-factsheet.aspx

Agency for Healthcare Research and Qualityhttp://www.ahrq.gov/research/findings/factsheets/aging/endliferia/index.html

I repeat:
The OP is just more sensationalist crap to scare the uninformed and the stupid.

 

There is nothing in your links that show American Doctors getting "extra" compensation for signing people up for an end of life pathway to save the system money. Nice try though

 

Personal insults are the best you can do... His post is about UK healthcare system, which is a completely different system than the US. So the only points he would be making would only be relevant to that system. It would take a desperate and illogical leap to claim this applied to the US system.