Margot you make a lot of allegations in post 24.. You stated and I quotee, " Oh yes they most certainly did mismanaged water assets.. They have over pumped the aquifers since taking them in 1967.. The coastal aquifer is back filling with salt water and the main one inland is full of ecoli and heavy metals. " Can you please provide the source for the above allegation. You stated, " The River Jordan is reduced to a trickle and in some places is a cess pool.. The Dead Sea has retreated by hundreds of yards .." Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Israel divert the Jordan river into Lake Tiberias leading to the decline in Dead sea levels.. Please explain how is solely the fault of Israel. You made this statement: " Israeli use to change water minister every 6 or 8 months ... none were science guys... Basically everything Israel has done has changed the water table ... forever.." Please provide your references for the above. At this point you throw out unsubstantiated, unreferenced allegations. At least make an effort and provide some basis for your allegations. As for this comment: "They were warned repeatedly in early 1950-1952 by two studies .. Loudermilk and Johnston." Who is they? What were 'they" warned about and what do you think was ignored? Again can you make an effort when you make allegations to properly explain your position. Loudermilk and Johnston studies? What studies?
Read the Hydrology of the Jordan Basin.. Then read the Laudermilk Plan and the Johnston Plan.. There are also several studies done by American Universities.. I remember one from the University of Alabama.. Ecoli and heavy metals are measured in parts per thousand in the aquifers.. and reverse osmosis doesn't eliminate those contaminants. I started studying the problems with Israeli water management in 1989 so I have read reams of reports. That's why high blood pressure and kidney disease are so prevalent in Israel and in the Palestinian population in particular.. Then you can read up on water shares per person for Israelis versus water shares per person in your Palestinian population. Israelis like to claim they made the desert bloom.. They were Europeans with little understanding of the water conservation.. That's one reason they coveted the Shaaba Farms, Golan Watershed and control of the aquifers and the Jordan River.. They needed more water so they took it.. That's the reason they have dogged Lebanon.. They tried several times to take the Litani River and the Wazani.. which are in Lebanon. Israel has bled the water table down .. that's why the Dead Sea has retreated by hundreds of yards.
Here's a study from Duke University The third project was part of the European Union 5th framework research program titled BOREMED that investigated the origin of boron in Mediterranean water resources. A group of Israeli, Palestinian, and French scientists studied the origin of contamination of groundwater in the southern Mediterranean coastal aquifer of Israel and the Gaza Strip. We found that the major source of salinization was the flow of natural saline groundwater from Israel to the Gaza Strip, coupled with nitrate pollution and sea-water intrusion. Here, again we used geochemical and isotopic (boron, strontium, oxygen, deuterium) tracers to delineate the different salinity sources (Gaza_WRR). The geochemical data was used to reconstruct numerical simulation and to establish a possible management scenario to remediate the salinity problem by pumping the saline groundwater along the border and then using it for desalination (Gaza_GW). These management scenarios could facilitate future cooperation between Israel and Palestinians and provide a solution for one of the most severe water-quality crisis in the region. Boron pollution in Mediterranean water resources: sources and remediation continued in depth http://sites.nicholas.duke.edu/avnervengosh/research/geochemistry-of-water-contamination/
At this point without proper specifics from Margo I can only address certain issues. It is public record that pursuant to a meeting of the Israeli-Palestinian Joint Water Committee on March 4, 2015, Israel announced the doubling of water delivery to Gaza begining in mid 2015. Israel at that time increased the amount of water sent to Palestinian territories from 5 million cubic meters per year to 10 million. It is also public record that The Palestinian Authority pays Israel an estimated $3 million per year for their water, which constitutes less than 10% of the water consumed in the Palestinian territories so the accusations Palestinians are paying for all their water from Israel is false. The water agreement entered into by the Palestinian Authority was: The Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement of September 28, 1995, and includes on Annez 3, Appendix 1, a "Water Agreement" that provides the rules both parties agreed to follow on the West Bank in regards to water. The above agreement was signed in Washington and witnessed by the United States, Russia, the European Union, Norway, Jordan and Egypt. In direct repudiation of the accusations Margot is trying to make Israel has met is obligations according to the Water Agreement and actually gone beyond, what was required and: " During the interim period of the Oslo talks, Israel made available approximately 70 MCM/year of water to the Palestinians in the West Bank even though the Water Agreement allocates a much smaller quantity of only 23.6 MCM/year. The Palestinian Authority consumes approximately 200 MCM of water every year. Israel supplies the Palestinians with 50 MCM of water, which is far beyond its obligation in the Water Agreement (31 MCM). Though Israel is often accused of stealing water or otherwise misallocating supplies to the disadvantage of the Palestinians, a study by Professor Haim Gvirtzman found there is almost no difference in per capita consumption of natural water between Israelis and Palestinians. Palestinians consume significantly more water than the minimum human needs defined by the World Health Organization. Palestinian farmers overwater their crops using outdated methods and much of the water is wasted due to leakage and mismanagement. The Palestinians constantly breach the agreement by drilling more than 300 unauthorized wells in the West Bank. The Palestinians have illegally connected to Israeli water lines, which Gvirtzman says is stealing Israel's water. The Palestinians do not treat 95 percent of their sewage, which flows freely in the streams and into Israel, contaminating the environment and the aquifer en route. Only one sewage plant has been built in the last 15 years in the West Bank. The Palestinians are not developing any new water sources, either through sewage treatment, or desalination. Israel makes extensive use of recycled waste water in agriculture; the Palestinians do not recycle." source: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/water99.html Israel, Jordan and the PA signed another water sharing agreement in the form of a Memorandum of Understanding on December 9 2013 Now I did find the following which may be some of what Margot is referring to which I believe supports some of her claims and its from http://www.btselem.org/photoblog/20140219_water : "Further to the Knesset session, we posted precise figures regarding water consumption in Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. All West Bank residents must deal with constant water shortages due to the discriminatory allocation of water to the West Bank in comparison to Israel. Even those people in the West Bank who are hooked up to the water grid do not have the pleasure of running water year-round; most residents place large water-storage containers on their roofs. In addition, 113,000 people are not hooked up to the water grid at all, so they are forced to spend much money on the high-priced water carried by water trucks. The situation in the Gaza Strip has more to do with quality than with quantity. Over 90% of the water in Gaza is unfit for drinking. The residents drink purified water they purchase from public or private water treatment facilities. Wafa al-Faran, 42, a married mother of eight described the situation in Gaza where she lives: We don't drink the water that from the pipes and don't use it for making coffee or tea or for cooking. We buy fresh water from water vendors. Sometimes, I use the fresh water to wash my daughters hair, and in the morning we use this water to wash our faces, because the water from the taps burns our eyes. The above is not the fault of Zionists its the reality all Palestinians as I will show below engaging in illegal well making. Blaming Israel for the realities of desert water is idiotic. Water's quality is not something Israel deliberately makes bad. When this human rights group states the above, it does so to show Palestinians need sources of water other than from wells, not that Zionists make the water bad. Now lets deal with what is actually under Israeli control to see what they did. Here's a report that backs up everything I reported earlier directly repudiating what Margot said and indicates exactly what Israel has done with water management on the West Bank: http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTWESTBANKGAZA/Resources/IsraelWaterAuthorityresponse.pdf It states: "Development of water supply systems for the Palestinians has in the past decade been carried out on a very large scale, much larger than that stated in the Interim Agreement. This development has for the most part taken place after obtaining the approval of the JWC and with funding from donor countries. The Water Agreement determined that water supply to the Palestinians would increase (during the period of the Interim Agreement) by 28.6 MCM/yr, of which 5 MCM/yr would be supplied to the Gaza Strip and 23.6 MCM/yr to the West Bank. It was agreed that this quantity would be in addition to the quantity consumed by the Palestinians in that year, namely, 118 MCM. In other words, it was agreed that water supply to the Palestinians during the Interim Agreement period would in the West Bank increase by 20%. This quantity of water would be part of the quantity defined as the "Future Needs" of the Palestinians in the West Bank, i.e. about 70-80 MCM/yr, which would be provided in the framework of the permanent arrangement." It then goes on to show its not Israel violating the agreement but how it is the PA violating the agreement: Unapproved Palestinian Wells (in Breach of the Water Agreement) The Palestinians are violating the Water Agreement by drilling water wells in the Mountain Aquifer without the approval of the JWC in particular from the northern basin in the area of Jenin and from the western basin in the vicinity of Qalqilya and Tulkarm. Since the signing of the agreement more than 250 unapproved wells have been drilled, from which the Palestinians are abstracting about 10 MCM/yr (this quantity is included in the Palestinian consumption shown in Fig. 2.1). The agreement with the Palestinians states that their future needs will be supplied mainly from the eastern aquifer (see item 3a and Table 10 eastern aquifer); however, the unapproved wells were drilled mostly in the northern aquifer and in areas A and B. This means that Israeli production in the northern valleys within Israel has been affected. Palestinians are also making unauthorized "pirate" connections to the Mekorot water supply pipelines. Shortages of water are experienced in Hebron, Kiryat Arba, Bani Naim, Beita and additional villages, caused principally by the fact that water is being stolen by inhabitants of the Sair and Shuyukh villages for irrigating fields on the fringes of the Judean Desert that have never been irrigated in the past. The thefts have compelled Israel to lay a new water supply pipeline following a different route. Similar cases have occurred in other parts of the West Bank as well. Thefts of water from Israeli pipelines, carried out from both transmission mains and secondary lines, are estimated at 3.5 MCM/yr. The Palestinians routinely state that the unapproved wells are affecting them as well and that they too are trying to combat the phenomenon. However, in fact nothing concrete has been done by them to stop the incidents, which constitute a serious violation of the Water Agreement. Based on the Water Agreement, Israel has taken action, through the Civil Administration and supervisory teams that were set up in accordance with it, against this violation of the agreement. As a result, the phenomenon has been eradicated in Area C, which is under Israeli control, and has been confined principally to shallow wells in Area B (under Israeli security control and Palestinian civilian control) and Area A (under full Palestinian control). In the Gaza Strip, where the Palestinians are in full control, over 3,000 unapproved wells were drilled immediately following Israel's withdrawal, causing a severe drop in water levels and seriously harming the quality of water in the Gaza Aquifer and the general Gaza water economy. This situation is ongoing and is even intensifying (there are many more unapproved than approved wells). The total damage caused is clear and is difficult to reverse. The phenomenon in Gaza has not been stopped and the only ones affected are the Gaza residents (although it may be reasonably assumed that without proper supervision and enforcement, even the Mountain Aquifer will eventually be severely affected)." Let's go on to also see other problems the PA is mismanaging: "4. Palestinian Sewage Sewage discharged from Palestinian communities in the West Bank flows by gravity towards Israel, principally to the west but also to the south (from Hebron and neighbouring communities) and towards the east (from the Jerusalem area). The discharge of untreatedsewage is a danger to health, the environment and the water resources in the West Bank and Israel. The Interim Agreement holds the Palestinians responsible for treating their sewage. However, in contrast to the extensive activity evident in the field of water supply installations, no significant progress has been made with respect to Palestinian wastewater treatment plants and proper reuse of the effluents for agriculture, and this essential activity, which is a binding part of the Water Agreement, has been stalled for years. Most seriously affected are the Kishon, Alexander-Nablus, Modiin, Kidron and Hebron streams. The absence of wastewater treatment by the Palestinians, and the parallel expansion of water supply works, has led to increasingly severe environmental pollution. Hebron Stream, which flows towards the Beer Sheva Valley and flows to the Besor Stream, has become a polluted wastewater channel. Nearby Palestinian villages and Israeli communities suffer badly from polluted water, odours, flies and mosquitoes. Nablus Stream, which flows in a westward direction, has become a wastewater channel for Nablus, while in the downstream section; it also serves as a wastewater channel for Tulkarm. Flows containing wastewater from both sources debouch into the Alexander Stream, to the west of the so called "Green Line". The environmental hazards affect both the Israelis and the Palestinians. Many additional rivers have become wastewater channels for other towns and villages, from which untreated wastewater infiltrates the groundwater in the Mountain Aquifer, affecting its quality. Wells located in the downstream sections of the rivers are exposed to contamination originating from wastewater infiltration to the aquifer. The result has been contamination of wells supplying drinking water, leading to their closure; examples are the Beit Fajjar well (owned by the Municipality of Bethlehem), three wells in the Jerusalem area (Ein Karem 13, 17, and Al Azzariya 1), and wells in the Jordan Valley area (Mitzpe Jericho well 6 and Naaran 2). The quantity of wastewater generated by the Palestinians at present is estimated at about 52 MCM/yr. Of this, only about 4 MCM/yr is treated in Palestinian plants, and about 14 MCM/yr in Israeli plants. The rest of the wastewater, about 34 MCM/yr, pollutes the groundwater and the Israeli and Palestinian environment. ... Although the Water Agreement obligates both the sides to treat their wastewater, the Palestinians apparently prefer to let their wastewater flow into Israeli territory, polluting the environment and the common aquifer. Israel is therefore compelled, against its will, to treat the Palestinian wastewater reaching it (the cost of treating Palestinian wastewater in Israel is offset from the funds that are owed to the Palestinians). Most of the wastewater from Israeli communities in the West Bank is already undergoing treatment and in the near future all of it will be treated. An examination of financial investments made by the Palestinians in wastewater treatment as compared with the total investments in water supply and wastewater installations illustrates the lack of interest on their part to treat wastewater." The report goes on to show how the PA has mismanaged its water. The bottom line is Palestinians are polluting the drinking water of themselves and Israelis and Margot thinks she can blame it on Zionists. She could care less about the actual facts. The report summarizes the PA mismanagement as follows: "The Palestinians are avoiding treatment of wastewater and reuse of the treated effluents for irrigation, a move that would free large quantities of fresh water for domestic use, while also preventing contamination of groundwater and environmental pollution. At times, this is explained on the basis of a religious prohibition, which is puzzling as neighbouring Arab countries treat wastewater and use the effluent for irrigation of agricultural lands. It also appears that for tactical reasons of negotiation, the Palestinians do not wish to discuss desalination as a concrete solution (for the West Bank) or regional schemes. This Palestinian position may be summed up as follows: "Give us (Israel to the Palestinians) all the fresh water we need for the present and the future, take (Israel from the Palestinians)= the wastewater that we generate, and desalinate seawater in place of the water we are taking from you." The above position, which has been presented in international articles and at many international forums, attests to the fact that the Palestinians have not yet internalized the idea that a win-win solution to the water scarcity in the region will necessitate an increase in the overall availability of water, conservation, increased efficiency, and substantial upgrading of the entire supply system. The Palestinians are clearly endevouring to arrive at solutions that will be primarily at the expense of Israel, which is suffering from severe water scarcity and is making intensive efforts to bring about efficient and responsible utilization of its scarce natural resources." The report clearly indicates if the PA were to simply follow the agreement they signed they would not be creating the problems they now have which Margot would like to blame on Zionists. The report I provided from the World Bank comes to the same conclusions as the report from the hydrologist I provided earlier and both directly repudiate each and every allegation Margot has made. As for her attempt to blame Israel for bad quality of water by so doing she clearly shows she has no clue at all as to what the issues are as to managing water and what causes its quality.
I read your post, what problems ? who lacks drinking water? the winters in the area are mild, this winter hardly any rain - yet we are not short of water due to desalination, making the desret bloom with agriculture was a 1950's notion, we will settle it with new cities once we finish a few projects that will allow easy travel and electricity but agriculture is just too expensive compared to the competition, its cheaper to import. What's the problem ?
Israel control 85% of water sources..http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/article_xinhua.aspx?id=324939 Most of Israel's desalination is just reverse osmosis which doesn't remove most contaminants, Most of the Jewish settlements in the West Bank have no sewage treatment and they are on the ridges.. so raw sewage does percolate down hill. http://mondoweiss.net/2016/03/pales...uin-evictions-on-40th-land-day-commemoration/ In Israel, “50,000 houses Arab houses are under demolition orders, villages are ordered to be evacuated and demolished,” Touma-Sliman said. - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2016/03/pales...-land-day-commemoration/#sthash.NK9VkO8A.dpuf “All that can be confiscated [in the north] is almost all already confiscated, that’s why we are focusing in the Negev now,” Touma-Sliman added. In recent years a second Land Day demonstration is held in the south over the issue of Bedouins residing in unrecognized villages. In the Negev desert region 160,000 Bedouins live in towns that are deemed illegal by the state, therefore they do not have access to basic municipal services. Water, electricity and sewage connections are prohibited. These ramshackle towns are constructed with flimsy materials in a loophole to strict building codes, in which an unregistered township can host houses so long as they are not outfitted with formal supplies. Concrete, wood and glass are banned, and so tarp and tin are common fixtures. - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2016/03/pales...-land-day-commemoration/#sthash.NK9VkO8A.dpuf Most
(*)(*)(*)(*) the arabs. They all beleive that might is right. They murder gay people and women have (*)(*)(*)(*) all rights
Fair enough that makes everything all right then. Take the Palestinian's land, it's ok it's only Arabs. Take their water, it's ok it's only Arabs.
Just the opposite this is the <Land of Israel> from time immemorial... the Arabs are encroaching and squatters on this land.
Jews made up13% of the population in 1920, the Zionists who arrived from Europe are the squatters. If the Jews liked it so much they should of stayed there rather than emigrate.
Palestine 1920 But the Syrian province of Palestine, about one hundred and fifty miles long and fifty miles broad, largely mountainous and sterile, contains at present a population of more than 650,000, divided as follows: Mohammedan Arabs, 515,000; Jews, 63,000; Christian Arabs, 62,000; nomadic Bedouins, 50,000; unclassified, 5000. Of these the Mohammedans and Christians are to a man bitterly opposed to any Zionist claims, whether made by would-be rulers or by settlers. It may not be generally known, but a goodly number of the Jewish dwellers in the land are not anxious to see a large immigration into the country. http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/bookauth/zionism/mackay.htm
(*)(*)(*)(*) their claims to an ancestral home, they had very real homes elsewhere in the world. Do you think Irish Americans should be allowed to return to Ireland and take the land of the people who live there?
Why because a Shanghai newspaper quoted Palestinian Prime Minister Rami Hamdallah who said that, so presto its true? That's it? That's how you respond to the reports I provided you? You provide an unsubstantiated comment from someone with a vested partisan interest in distorting the actual situation? You parrot someone who mismanages his people's water? Then you throw in some unrelated issues tha have nothing to do with water management issues, and complain about water contaminants which of course applies to Israelis as much as it does Jordanians and Palestinians and yet you blame on Israel? Yah that's insightful. Your buddy Ria can't even discuss the topic. After he quoted one article he appears to have blown his load on the topic of the thread and decided to launch into his usual recycled Israel should not exist shtick. I do note you won't respond to the reports I provided explaining word for word what you say is false. I expect that. Here's a paper written by a non European land thief. Sorry it doesn't provide the pathetic attempts to blame Israel for a complex issue. file:///C:/Users/Michael/Downloads/PHD_THESIS-NAZER1.pdf
