How to ban guns without firing a single shot...

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, May 25, 2022.

  1. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    I have a better idea.
    Establish a report line to the FBI of troubled youth who own guns that are used by concerned relatives to report a family member who might become violent.
    Upon receipt of such report the FBI is to flag and prevent gun sales till that person is evaluated by a qualified psychiatrist. The law enforcement should arrest the weapons for the duration of the investigation. If at the conclusion of investigation the person is cleared by the psychiatrist then that person gets their guns back and the flags are cleared, allowing future sales. If the result is not good then the law enforcement can transfer these weapons to a qualified gun dealer to resell the weapons and turn over the proceeds to gun owner. Allow challenging the flags every 10 years by going through repeated evaluation, otherwise flags that block weapons sale are to remain in place for lifetime. Any retaliation for such reporting should be punished by lifetime flag blocking the sale and administrative fines. If crime is committed - aggregate the crime one step up (misdemeanor to be treated as felony, for example).
    Failure to report an overly aggressive armed close relative should result in asset seizures, including cars and real estate used for residency. Failure to secure own guns to prevent access by the relative in question should result in the same penalty.
    These rules would prevent Sandy Hook and this incident in Texas, as both shooters have history of serious conflict with their close relatives.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2022
  2. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The point is that no one who sees their right to bear arms as a civil right cares that you think its not a civil right. Your assertion that regulating it to the point where its virtually impossible can be done 'without firing a shot' is asinine ...unless you support the right of secession, I guess. Because this sort of 'anullment by incrimental bureaucratic regulation' isn't going to fly for a lot of people, it will be viewed as a fundamental breach of our social contract and substantially erode the strength of our union.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2022
  3. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Where exactly is the "bloody minded leftist insanity" in this observation: America: the land where women are forced to give birth because of 'right to life', where men are free to buy weapons of deadly capacity because of 'right to bear arms', and where few can see the contradiction.

    You have proved the point, your blind, conservative, paranoid "rights" ideology turns you into a monster, willing to countenance the instant mass slaughter of children as can only be carried out by an individual in possession of military grade weapons.

    You don't see it, of course, that's what ideological blindness does; but your anger in being forced to confront what is going on betrays your paranoia. My anger is with those young lives lost to your paranoid "rights" ideology.

    Biden says "in God's name how long are we going to tolerate this", but he doesn't understand the power of the paranoid Right's blind ideology.

    Er....mental health problems caused previous mass slaughters of children by sick individuals armed with military grade weapons, long before the pandemic....

    Yes mental illness is a problem (but not the only problem; economic realities are involved)....which demands massive state intervention - which itself is resisted by blind survival of the fittest Conservative "rights" ideology demanding lower taxes and 'small government'.


    I'm discussing it now...

    Now you have a glimmer of a point to make; the current neoliberal economic orthodoxy forces the government to tax or borrow from the private sector, and so government is hopelessly constrained to such an extent the "leftist rules" are often poorly designed and implemented ie the rules are made with budget considerations - not social well-being - in mind.
     
  4. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    It should be possible to make guns inoperable on demand in public places. I won't go into the details but it's coming.
     
  5. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    The bottom line. Slaves do not own guns. Free men own gun.

    The argument against the gun control, never mentioned by the libs, and of course ignored by the OP, is the reason the 2nd Amendment was written.

    IMHO the basis for the 2nd Amendment is best communicated by this book, which I wonder if American liberals have ever read.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Your fundamentalist version of "the right to bear arms" (for self-defence) - blindly held - makes you a monster, as brilliantly expressed in this tweet:

    "America: the land where women are forced to give birth because of 'right to life', where men are free to buy weapons of deadly capacity because of 'right to bear arms', and where few can see the contradiction".

    "Social contract" means collective well-being, not some fundamentalist version of a "right" to bear arms; and the 'strength of the union' is seriously undermined by these mass slaughters of innocents - particularly prevalent in the US.
     
  7. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    The 2nd Amendment is obsolete; the British or the Indians aren't going to attack your cities.

    The US is not a Stalinist dictatorship; but the mind-set of fundamentalist Conservative "rights" ideologues makes it a relatively dangerous place for children, despite being the richest nation on the planet.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2022
  8. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    An absurd comment. The Bill of Rights addresses basic liberties of citizens. Nothing to do with defense against British or Indians.

    The comment about the USSR went right over you head. The 2nd Amendment is intended as a check and balance against the establishment of a Stalinist dictatorship. Yes, freedom is dangerous. Not as dangerous as a lack of freedom. The most dangerous places in the US with the most crime are run by liberals.

    I have to ask. Are you a US Citizen and have you ever taken a basic US Government class such as required to graduate from high school?
     
  9. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    The overwhelming number of mass shootings have been done with pistols.
    No one forces a woman to get pregnant.
     
  10. Condor060

    Condor060 Well-Known Member Donor

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    When you can address my post. let me know. lol
     
  11. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    there is no need to read after this this statement is cognitive dissonance and building upon cognitive dissonance does not lead anywhere.

    So the reason why there was a massacre is not because of absence of laws it was absence of enforcement.

    There was already a law completely banning all guns on that property the shooter violated them anyway and it doesn't matter if you have one law 30 laws a thousand laws or a million laws. They all mean nothing without enforcement.

    I'm thinking gun control is really your only goal here it's just that this school shooting means emotions are high and you can manipulate people which is exactly what's going on. That's kind of all the mainstream left has been doing for the past decade.

    I can fix the problem without jumping through any of your screwball hoops.

    Simply enforce but since you really don't care about stopping this really only care about getting a dig in on your political enemies you can just not bother responding to this with whatever claptrap floated into your mind.
     
  12. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    So your saying that citizens of Australia and other country's are slaves. Got it.
     
  13. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    his attack really isn't on guns it's on you and me. We are to blame for this guy pulling the trigger because we don't support different Insanity that they insist without the slightest shred of evidence is common sense.

    So because he doesn't like you he wants to inflict damage on you this is his little culture war.

    They don't really care about the massacre if they did they would be talking about enforcement of laws because the absence of that was the reason that it happened

    All they want to do is manipulate people's emotions in order to come after you. This has been the tactic for the past decade. Remember trayvon Martin in 2013, he wasn't killed by Andrew Zimmerman he was killed by white supremacy and white supremacy wants to kill all black people or that's what they say and it's ever present and it's in the hearts and minds of everybody just under the surface this is a way to poison people against their own countrymen.

    They have to do this to weaken the society so they can have their great reset.
     
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  14. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Australians were abused pretty good during Covid lockdowns. :lol:
    I’m not saying that guns would have changed anything during Covid hysteria, but people of Australia do seem to have a government with a bit too much power over its citizens.
     
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  15. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I believe subjects or supplicants is a better word.

    They certainly are not free citizens
     
  16. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am sorry if per capita ratios is too complex a topic.
     
  17. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Yeah it's hard to watch. Believe it or not I like Aussies every one of them I've ever met haven't met many in if I met the ones that are posting on this forum I probably would like them to.

    What I see in Australia is foreboding it's not necessarily going to lead to a dictatorship but he undertone is there.
     
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  18. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Have you ever heard the saying that there are lies there are damn lies and then there are statistics.

    That means people are more manipulated by statistics technically they're facts but I've rarely been in a situation where they've been used for honesty.
     
  19. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Only in your paranoid fundamentalist Conservative "rights" ideology, directly responsible for mass murder of children by madmen. Basic liberties of citizens includes the safety of children in schools,

    Your comment about Stalin's dictatorship is TOTALLY irrelevant, the 2nd Amendment. predated the USSR by over a century, at a time when slavery existed in the US - despite the 2nd Amendment.

    Only in your fundamentalist blind paranoid febrile "rights" ideology; you are determined to oppose a different political ideology which might be chosen in free elections, nothing to do with establishment of a dictatorship.

    In the sense that in nature, all creature are "free", but all are subject to predation at any time.

    It's the task of men to change that as far as is possible via rule of law - as opposed to "the right to bear arms".

    Meaningless waffle, as explained above. Btw, your 'small government' ideology is responsible for lack of adequate funding for mental health management and other social problems.

    Ideological BS (Texas, Florida massacres?), though Dems are also deluded by neoliberal 'small government' ideology, meaning massive under-funding to achieve above-poverty employment (which the private sector can never achieve by itself), health and public housing.

    Irrelevant, we are discussing the horrific consequences of a now obsolete after-thought to the US Constitution, namely the 'right to bear arms'.

    In the age of MAD, nations need to disarm under international law, to outlaw war as a means of dispute settlement between nations. Look at the war of attrition in Ukraine, funded by the US because Russia can eliminate life on the planet, so a direct confrontation with Russia is not possible.

    Likewise citizens need to interact with one-another, under rule of law, other than by arming themselves to the teeth with military grade weapons, against one-another.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2022
  20. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    There are more gun owners than Democrats in America, and a fourth of them vote Democrat. That has to change.
     
  21. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Our social contract is our constitution, not something you just wish it was. The constitution is, in part, a contract between the states and fedgov. The states join, fedgov upholds certain guarantees, or rights. Breach them illegitimately, void the contract. Destroy the union.

    Also, I agree with you (or whomever you're quoting) about abortion. While its not a codified civil right like the right to bear arms is, body autonomy is another important individual right just like self defense, and I oppose restricting either on that basis.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2022
  22. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    .....written when slavery was lawful, therefore likely an obsolete "social contract" at least in part, eg the 2nd Amendment.

    You still wish to "bear arms"..... well ok, but the words "arms" in the 2nd Amendment were written when "arms" consisted of muskets....

    So now the US is turning into a monstrous society that acquiesces in the slaughter of its own young by madmen armed with 21st century military assault weapons.

    And the constitution is, in part, a dangerous anachronistic document in need of urgent change appropriate for the 21st century.

    Yes, and Roe v. Wade stated abortion is a right, but now the Conservative SC wants to overturn that right on the basis of 'right to life' .....AND preserve the now anachronistic, murderous monstrosity aka the 2nd Amendment, without taking account of the difference between 18th and 21st century arms, and without taking account of the changed nature of the threats facing individuals in a modern community, and the appropriate means to deal with these threats.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2022
  23. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Do you need to be educated on what arms existed at the time of the second amendment as well? Look up the puckle gun, see the semi auto Big bore airgun Lewis and Clark carried, look up the duck foot pistol.

    These were all multi-shot firearms.

    They did not have the internet or radio or television when the first amendment was written. Do you want to stick to your logic and say that the first amendment should only apply to the written word and the spoken word?

    Or do you have two sets of standards?

    Anyhow now you know that there were more than "muskets" when the second amendment was written.

    The more you know....
     
  24. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    No, the attack is on unrestricted access to guns, plus lack of restriction on TYPES of guns.

    Let's read on; but I expect I will be forced to demolish the usual asinine crap from fundamentalist (unrestricted) "right to bear arms" types.

    SO...those 19 young lives where sacrificed because - who exactly - caused their slaughter to happen , in school no less. Let's read on...

    How does any of this relate to the 19 children who were slaughtered - in seconds - in the Texas classroom?

    What happened before 1966 ("as a matter of fact")?

    I ask again, how does this relate to the 19 kids slaughtered in seconds by a madman in Texas?

    Yes the murderer armed with assault rifles was a monster, but I'm still waiting for you to explain what this has to do with the kids.

    Wrong,the experience in Australia which heavily restricted access to number and type of gun, after the Port Arthur massacre, shows otherwise.

    That's what Biden realized on his flight back from Japan : "Why does this keep happening in the US"....

    Oh dear (link)

    As protests roil US, here’s what happened in the 1920 Ocoee Election Day Riots (clickorlando.com)

    As protests roil US, here’s what happened in the 1920 Ocoee Election Day Riots

    I remember being caned in the 60's ...and I was a most timid kid...

    Ah... to maintain the authority of biased parents, some of whom have monstrous survival of the fittest ideologies.

    Of course.

    Of course.

    News to me....

    Your theory is that spoilt kids are 'getting away with murder'.....the answer to that is indeed appropriate discipline ( though I've forgotten why I was caned at school...)

    Your argument is that teaching respect and discipline are the answer.

    In a society in which half the population are living pay check to pay check, and poverty and disadvantage is entrenched, I say your argument is woefully inadequate.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2022
  25. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are you really saying that using per capita data to find a ratio not skewed by population size is manipulation of the numbers?

    ROFL!!!

    I really have nothing I can say here here except ok.
    We disagree

    I hope you don’t mind I keep your remarks to quote them to your fellow cons in the future.
     

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