How would you fight the Islamic State?

Discussion in 'Terrorism' started by Clausewitz, Feb 25, 2015.

  1. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Messages:
    43,110
    Likes Received:
    459
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    what if we claim our faithful are more faithful than their faithful?
     
  2. MMC

    MMC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Messages:
    41,793
    Likes Received:
    14,697
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    They wont believe us.....then they will trashtalk the Atheists. Telling them.....they aren't forgotten.
     
  3. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Messages:
    43,110
    Likes Received:
    459
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    are not Only great shysters, unbelievable?
     
  4. MMC

    MMC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Messages:
    41,793
    Likes Received:
    14,697
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Cmon now.....why bring Bill Clinton into this. [​IMG]
     
  5. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Messages:
    43,110
    Likes Received:
    459
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    what if we claim our faithful are more faithful than their faithful?
     
  6. MMC

    MMC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Messages:
    41,793
    Likes Received:
    14,697
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What if we do? How does that affect them?
     
  7. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Messages:
    43,110
    Likes Received:
    459
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    the truest witness bearers for their Cause should get the most immunity.
     
  8. MMC

    MMC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Messages:
    41,793
    Likes Received:
    14,697
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Can't find that out until after the conflict is over.....and who's left standing.
     
  9. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Messages:
    43,110
    Likes Received:
    459
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    i thought the good ones got crucified in favor of leniency for the bad boys with the criminal record.
     
  10. MMC

    MMC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Messages:
    41,793
    Likes Received:
    14,697
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    How so, when you were looking at who was more faithful?
     
  11. RoccoR

    RoccoR Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    1,155
    Likes Received:
    248
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Lil Mike; AboveAlpha, et al,

    Everybody from the UN Secretary General, to the janitor for "A-Wing" SHAPE HQ, has a theory on the. As the theory goes (very close to Above Alpha's commentary): "No Policy to Fight Terrorism Can Succeed without Addressing Conditions Promoting Its Spread, Secretary-General Tells Security Council." (SG/SM/14764-SC/10883 15 JAN 2013)

    There is no magic solution or pat answer to the question of: What constitutes the underlying what constitutes the "Conditions that Promote the Spread of Terrorism."

    Expanded Context of UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon’s remarks to the Security Council:

    No counter-terrorism policy can be effective without addressing conditions that are conducive to the spread of terrorism. This is the first pillar of the United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy. Today I would like to highlight three aspects of this pillar.

    • First: the critical links between development and security. Nothing can justify terrorism — ever. No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts. At the same time, we must remove the conditions that feed the problem. Terrorism festers where conflicts are endemic and where human rights, human dignity and human life are not protected and impunity prevails.

    • Second: the importance of dialogue and understanding. We have to drown out shrill appeals to intolerance and extremism with sound calls for compassion and moderation.

    • Third: the increasing use of information technology to spread hate. Terrorists and extremists are exploiting social media networks to radicalize people. This is yet another arena where we have to replace the terrorist narrative with messages of peace, development and human welfare.

    (COMMENT)

    Each individual Call to Jihad, Terrorist Campaign, or Insurgency (low-intensity asymmetric conflicts) must be examined separately. The reasons that Osama Bin Laden (Civil Engineer) became a terrorist were shaped in a completely different way from the forging behind the reasons Ayman al-Zawahiri (Optical Medicine Surgeon) became a terrorist. Yet they were both #1 and #2 in the al-Qaeda (AQ) Organization. Similarly, the recruits that AQ attracted, were drawn to the cause for a myriad of different reasons. There are some recruits which carry among them, similar characteristics: Many of the 9-11 participants Saeed al-Ghamid, Nawaf al-Hazimi, and Marwan al-Shehhi, all had some college education. Mohamed Atta, had a degree in Architecture (1990) from Cairo University, he studied in Hamburg University of Technology, as did Ramzi bin al-Shibh; all of who were part of the 9-11 Attack on the Twin Towers. I have listened to criminal profilers talk about these characteristic, but I'm not sure that they have drawn any conclusion yet. As one profiler told me, it is not an exact science. But one pointed out to me that many of them in terrorist organizations (generically) appear to be more left-brain thinkers (so association towards strong math and logic skills). While it does not appear that very many have their talents directed more towards the creative side of things (right-brained thinkers).

    Different types of participation in low budget terrorist campaigns tend to recruit more participants from the lower end of the socio-economic scale. Suicide bombers tend to be poor and uneducated, tending to thing that the economic reward for participation will have a greater impact on the family (worth more dead than alive mental state). And while that directly relates to the description of the "Poor education, unemployment, starvation, hopelessness...etc" provided by "Lil Mike," it doesn't explain who it came to be that Osama bin Laden targeted America:
    What does this mean? Well it means that we are missing something in understanding how the various Calls to Jihad, Terrorist Campaign, or Insurgency (low-intensity asymmetric conflicts) develop and continue. It is important to note that even the definition of terrorism is extremely difficult to pin-down and heavily politicized. While the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) has a definition, looking most suspiciously like the American definition, the United Nations does not have a common definition. That discussion is heavily influenced by The Arab Convention for the Suppression of Terrorism, adopted by the Council of Arab Ministers of the Interior and the Council of Arab Ministers of Justice. Cairo, April 1998; present prior United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy was adopted by Member States on 8 September 2006. In the Arab version of 1998, the Preamble makes a remarkable exception.
    This itself is a bit of theatrics and a bit of an implied condition rolled into one decree (maybe even a veiled threat) by an influential Sub-group of the Arab League [Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC)]. This preamble essentially legitimized the terrorist action of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) against the State of Israel. And it had a very significant influence on the outcome of the General Court of the European Union (GCEU) Judgment in the case of: Hamas vs European Council (Case T-400/10) Judgment 17/12/1, essentially ruled in favor of the Palestinians complaint that the European Union designation of Hamas (including Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem) as a terrorist organization be cancelled.

    There is no question that the (GCEU) was concerned of the backlash by the various terrorist organizations. HAMAS (The Islamic Resistance Movement), a self-proclaimed Jihadist Organization (Article 3, 13, and 15 - HAMAS Covenant): "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad." --- "In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised."

    OBSERVATION:

    ••• On 31 July 1988: HM King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. This effectively ended the 11 April, 1950, Jordanian parliament (in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented) unanimous approval unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding (ANNEXATION) the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan. This began a period of terra nullius territory which has Jordan expressly and implicitly relinquished sovereignty; but was occupied by Israel.

    ••• On 18 August 1988, The Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) adopts Charter and Calls for Jihad.

    Reaffirmed: The article continues with Qaradawi blessing reconciliation between Fatah, which runs the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank, and the terrorist group Hamas, which controls Gaza. He called on all Palestinian factions “to defend the unity of Palestine, and to raise the banner of jihad, stressing that it is the only way to liberate the land and defend honor.”

    Moreover, “he [Qaradawi] stressed the need for armed resistance to the usurping enemy. He said that all the Islamic Umma is prepared for Jihad with life and money to restore Palestine, all of Palestine.”

    Jerusalem Post Middle East Al-Qaida leader calls for Jihad against Israel By REUTERS \ 06/06/2013
    In a 22-minute recording, posted on Islamist websites on Thursday to mark 65 years since Israel's founding, Zawahri also said the only way to solve the Palestinian problem was through Jihad (Islamic holy war).

    "Lions of the Levant, unite around this honorable goal and rise above sectarian affiliations," Zawahri said.

    "America, its agents and allies want you to shed your blood and the blood of your children and women to bring down the criminal Baathist regime, and then set up a government loyal to them and to safeguard Israel's security," he added.

    BREITBART --- 15 MAY 2014 Muslim Brotherhood Calls for Jihad Against Israel
    Moreover, “he [Qaradawi] stressed the need for armed resistance to the usurping enemy. He said that all the Islamic Umma is prepared for Jihad with life and money to restore Palestine, all of Palestine.”

    In the past, Qaradawi defended Hitler and made numerous anti-Semitic statements and gestures, including boycotting an interfaith dialogue conference in Qatar, saying he opposes discussions with Jews on principle. He has also called on Muslims to attain nucluear weapons to “terrorize their enemies.”

    ••• On 15 November 1988, Palestinian Declaration of Independence announced in Algiers.

    Notice that their is no real uniformity in the reasoning; only a common thread (Israel).

    Most Respectfully,
    R​
     
    AboveAlpha likes this.
  12. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Messages:
    43,110
    Likes Received:
    459
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Barabas (the Bad boy with the criminal record) versus Jesus the Christ.
     
  13. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2013
    Messages:
    30,284
    Likes Received:
    612
    Trophy Points:
    83


    I will be in the Middle East...again....after this weekend.

    I am going with my Team...even though I am supposed to be retired....to right a wrong as this is PERSONAL.

    I will be ending human lives...and this is not something to be proud of...but it is absolutely necessary.

    What Russia is currently doing in Syria is simply making things worse.

    Russia is allowing Assad to select targets...FSA targets....and Russian aircraft are indiscriminately bombing Civy neighborhoods just because a few members of the FSA are there.

    I said before this even started it would result in Sunni Extremists targeting Russian specific targets...and then came Egypt.

    We need a completely different plan.

    I know what needs to be done.

    Now it's all about convincing Putin.

    Russia is nothing as far as any threat to the U.S. conventionally as we hold all the cards.

    But Putin is in Syria to create a Bargaining Chip.

    We help Russia....Putin has Assad step down.

    THAT...is the deal.

    AboveAlpha​
     
  14. MMC

    MMC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Messages:
    41,793
    Likes Received:
    14,697
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Watch your six.....Sua Sponte, huah!!!!!! [​IMG]
     
  15. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2013
    Messages:
    30,284
    Likes Received:
    612
    Trophy Points:
    83
    My Team is comprised of the best that ever was.

    I trained them...and I am not Military...they are.

    I would give my life for any one of them.

    AboveAlpha
     
  16. RoccoR

    RoccoR Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    1,155
    Likes Received:
    248
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    AboveAlpha, et al,

    First, take care of yourself on your deployment...

    In the last half century, the United States has not had the Diplomatic expertise to adequately address the issues of the day, almost any where in the world. We don't always get it right even with Canada and Mexico. Of course most of the Mexican Government is about as uncorrupt as the NYPD in the days of Serpico; by a factor of 10. However, we should be ashamed of the reputation we have with the Canadians. We really need to improve that, and rebuild are rapport.

    (COMMENT)

    I've had the opportunity to see some of our more senior Foreign Service Officers, up close and personal. Most of them are extremely pompous, self-centered, and very over impressed with themselves. (Most of them have evolved to be more like John Bolton then you can imagine.) What they are not, is on the ball and able to tackle the challenges of the day. As they say in the Human Resource Business, absent the Knowledge, skills and Abilities to do the job. Both Iraq and Afghanistan are examples of the lack of their abilities.

    Today, we are attempting to effectively engage DAESH, and at the same time, smooth over relations with a number of other regional players. We need to back away slowly. This is a very complex issue. And mostly involves Islamic parties. Just as we could not broker a peace and resolve the issues in Palestine, so it is --- we need to let the Islamic players to chew each other up, and resolve the issues themselves. Nothing you do for the Radicalized Islamic Militant is going to be appreciated. And it is unlikely that we will be able to be helpful in any meaningful way that won't come back to bite us.

    The Administration, the State Department and the Pentagon do not have what it takes to resolve the issue to anyone satisfaction.

    Most Respectfully,
    R
     

Share This Page