Hybrid cars are a complicated waste.

Absolutely not! I bought the minivan with the highest safety rating at the time for my family. The problem is, these murderous CAFE standards are affecting ALL vehicles, even the bigger ones people buy so they can be safer. They are becoming progressively less save, minivan, pickup truck, and SUV all of them. It's why I don't go along with your claim that cars are safer today than in the past when the metro was made. I would certainly think my chances were better in a Metro than one of these damn "smart" cars.

 

How could he possibly do that by asserting his opinion on the matter? Are you denying the freedom to speak if he wants to?

 

Why? You can't fill up your gas tank while the vehicle is in us.

 

Yep electricity is free isn't it.

Gallon of electricity?

 

Well, staged photo....

I would trust the smart car over the metro. The smartcar is built by Mercedes, and has a fairly strong steel framed passenger compartment (which is why it doesn't get nearly the MPG of the metro. The Smartcar gets about 36 mpg combined, the metro about 42). That said, I chose a VW rabbit for my wife over a more efficient car because of safety. I'm sure the Rabbit is safer than any similar sized car built in the 1980s.

 

It's a lot cheaper than gas for the same amount of energy.

Charging an electric car is pretty cheap. A Tesla requires about 50KW/hrs for 150 miles. KW/Hr at average US costs about 12 cents per kw/hr. that means 150 miles costs about $6, or 25 miles cost $1. At $3.70 a gallon (price I saw this morning), that's the cost equivalent of having a car that gets 92.5 miles per gallon.

http://www.eia.gov/electricity/month...m?t=epmt_5_6_a
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S

The reason I don't have an electric car is that they are too expensive for what they can do. If they could build an electric car that had a range of 150 miles that costs about $15K, I'd buy one in an instant. I commute about 25 miles round trip each day. That would give me 6 trips range.

Gallon of diesel. See bold-face added above.

 

how much does it cost your AC unit 24/7?...electrical is a fraction of the cost of carbon fuel...13 cents per kwhr compared to $5 per gallon I paid yesterday $90 in total which will last a me week with light driving...

equivalency

 

if that photo is real, being crunched by two trucks of that size and your dead in any size vehicle...

that VW Twin UP is a prototype but if it comes on sale they will sell a lot as a daily commuter...

 

Oh my my my. First you assume all batteries will be the same, same dimension same amperage. Which of coarse the will not be. Then can you imagine how many cars fill up at a gas station every day, and those cars are getting 300+ miles a day. So mulitply that by about 5 even if the electric cars are getting good range, 10 at current standard and THAT is how many cars would be pulling in to have their batteries exchange which would NOT be as easy or as quick as filling up a tank of gas.

 

My AC has about a 1/4 Hp motor under light load.

And in real world conditions with all cost compared the cost differential favors the gasoline powered car.

 

Here is a PDF File from the Concerned Scientist Group that has determined in many U.S. areas and States an increase of Electricity Demand upon the Grid as a result of more Electric Cars existing which must PUG IN to Home Electrical Outlets which are supplied Electricity from a Grid that is Fossil Fuel Generated will INCREASE the amount of POLLUTION AND CO2 RELEASE INTO THE ATMOSPHERE.

LINK..what uses less fossil fuel compact gasoline powered car or electric car charged at home?

The REASON why some areas will have an INCREASE in the amounts of CO2 and POLLUTION into the atmosphere due to Electric Car use....and some areas will have a DECREASE....is because those areas where Electric Cars are being supplied electricity from fossil fuel burning plants SINCE THE POWER BEING SUPPLIED TO CHARGE AN ELECTRIC CAR TAKES MORE FOSSIL FUEL TO CREATE AND SEND THAT ELECTRICITY TO THE HOME THAT THE ELECTRIC CAR IS PLUGGED INTO AND CHARGING AT THAN THE AMOUNT OF FOSSIL FUEL THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN BURNED AND USED TO POWER A GASOLINE BURNING CAR!!!!!!!!

In areas that use Nuclear or Hydroelectric or other green energy Electrical Generation....the Electric Cars that plug in and charge from homes being supplied GREEN ENERGY will not require Fossil Fuel being used.

AboveAlpha .

- - - Updated - - -

Here is a PDF File from the Concerned Scientist Group that has determined in many U.S. areas and States an increase of Electricity Demand upon the Grid as a result of more Electric Cars existing which must PUG IN to Home Electrical Outlets which are supplied Electricity from a Grid that is Fossil Fuel Generated will INCREASE the amount of POLLUTION AND CO2 RELEASE INTO THE ATMOSPHERE.

LINK..what uses less fossil fuel compact gasoline powered car or electric car charged at home?

The REASON why some areas will have an INCREASE in the amounts of CO2 and POLLUTION into the atmosphere due to Electric Car use....and some areas will have a DECREASE....is because those areas where Electric Cars are being supplied electricity from fossil fuel burning plants SINCE THE POWER BEING SUPPLIED TO CHARGE AN ELECTRIC CAR TAKES MORE FOSSIL FUEL TO CREATE AND SEND THAT ELECTRICITY TO THE HOME THAT THE ELECTRIC CAR IS PLUGGED INTO AND CHARGING AT THAN THE AMOUNT OF FOSSIL FUEL THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN BURNED AND USED TO POWER A GASOLINE BURNING CAR!!!!!!!!

In areas that use Nuclear or Hydroelectric or other green energy Electrical Generation....the Electric Cars that plug in and charge from homes being supplied GREEN ENERGY will not require Fossil Fuel being used.

AboveAlpha .

- - - Updated - - -

Here is a PDF File from the Concerned Scientist Group that has determined in many U.S. areas and States an increase of Electricity Demand upon the Grid as a result of more Electric Cars existing which must PUG IN to Home Electrical Outlets which are supplied Electricity from a Grid that is Fossil Fuel Generated will INCREASE the amount of POLLUTION AND CO2 RELEASE INTO THE ATMOSPHERE.

LINK..what uses less fossil fuel compact gasoline powered car or electric car charged at home?

The REASON why some areas will have an INCREASE in the amounts of CO2 and POLLUTION into the atmosphere due to Electric Car use....and some areas will have a DECREASE....is because those areas where Electric Cars are being supplied electricity from fossil fuel burning plants SINCE THE POWER BEING SUPPLIED TO CHARGE AN ELECTRIC CAR TAKES MORE FOSSIL FUEL TO CREATE AND SEND THAT ELECTRICITY TO THE HOME THAT THE ELECTRIC CAR IS PLUGGED INTO AND CHARGING AT THAN THE AMOUNT OF FOSSIL FUEL THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN BURNED AND USED TO POWER A GASOLINE BURNING CAR!!!!!!!!

In areas that use Nuclear or Hydroelectric or other green energy Electrical Generation....the Electric Cars that plug in and charge from homes being supplied GREEN ENERGY will not require Fossil Fuel being used.

AboveAlpha .

 

Ouch!

 

"Porsche’s Glorious, Next-Gen Hybrid Racer "

http://www.wired.com/2014/03/porsche-919/

 

From a purely engineer's perspective, forgetting the issues of government incentive tax incentives, the development of battery and electric motor tech etc. ... Here are the pro and cons of a hybrid design.

When a gasoline motor is generating power, which could be used to turn a generator or directly turn an axle, its efficiency has a curve based on RPM or % of total output. The Engine is at about a 35% reduction in efficiency when at idle, and about a 10% reduction at peak output. at 85% power it is peaked in efficiency. So, the more time you keep the engine running at its peak efficiency power output level, the more you get from each kilogram of fuel... providing you have something useful to DO with the power all of the time.

But driving in traffic, particularly stop and go at stoplights city commuting traffic, and in terrain which is hilly, the pragmatic demand for power is up and down and idle and peaked for a few seconds for acceleration back to cruise, then dropped back to 30% for cruise etc.

So the base idea of a Hybrid is to keep the engine always running at peak efficiency output, while allowing the battery and motor/generator to store, restore, and peak output the acceleration. The Tech smooths out the power generation curve to allow a slightly smaller engine, running at near its peak efficiency output level most of the time.

The other advantage is that the kinetic energy stored in the moving vehicle is stored when coming to stops at stop lights, rather than just converted to waste heat in the brake system.

Its not a bad concept, but the utility depends greatly on how "Up/Down" the power demand of the average commute to work is for the driver, which is very individualistic, and probably not a constant for even a single driver.

When it comes to Optimizing anything, there is never a one-idea fits all approach, nor will it be a solution which applies forever. Things change, and the approach that works will too.

For some people, Hybrids are not a solution, for others, for a while, it will be.

Ain't Freedom and a Market and Profit Optimized Society GRAND!

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Oh wow, a South Park clip as evidence. Damn, you win.

 

Thank you.

 

Going downhill with the wind behind it!

 

That was a great summary of the basic concept and the reasoning behind it.

I doubt that any school student who sat in the front seat of a Prius and watched the power bar and the battery charge indicator go back and forth on a hybrid would have any trouble at all explaining the law of conservation of energy.

We have a long downhill run coming into my town. I can shift into the "B" mode on my car coming down that hill, which feels a lot like shifting down into second gear, and the car will go down the hill at a set speed, and I will only have to lightly tap the brake toward the bottom a the hill, while the regenerative braking fully charges the battery. At that point, if I keep my speed down, I can drive the full length of town and back on total electric power (which I've already paid for and get to use twice!)

The other big advantage is in heavy traffic. It came home to me the first time when I found myself stuck in the daily snarl on the Capitol Beltway. I was surrounded by thousands of cars, sitting, idling, doing nothing more than turning alternators and air conditioning compressors, and emitting huge amounts of tailpipe emissions. My Prius sat there silent (I could hear the radio of the guy in the car next to me), burning no gas, and I could still operate my radio, gps, AC etc. When the storage battery drew down, the car starts and charges the battery up, and then shuts down.

I see the logic in your remarks regarding ""Up/Down" the power demand of the average commute to work is for the driver, which is very individualistic, and probably not a constant for even a single driver. "

However, someone forgot to tell Toyota. I average 47-48 mpg no matter what kind of driving I do, and i drive 40000 miles a year.

For most people who commute, a plug in hybrid makes the most sense. Most people will never drive far enough for the engine to start, but they'll want the ability to go as far as they want.

Cheaper and more effecient batteries that store more energy will be key.

I have little doubt that if that sort of battery technology becomes available, the Tesla model will be the future.

 

Batteries as energy storage are far more dangerous than anything ever used in transportation by humanity.

The only worse Idea could think of would be heavy metal nuclear power for personal transport.

A hybrid based on liquified and compressed air would be a much, much, much better idea and technology.

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Really?

Link me some stories of tragic stories of fatalities cause by battery explosions.

BTW, are you aware that gasoline is flammable??????????

 

I have friends that commute from Long Beach to the I.E., their Prius pays for itself. For about the price of a decent small car one can buy a reliable low milage hybrid car (23K). Tesla make 2 cars that are all electric, they get 240 miles to a charge and they are very fast(0-60 in 4.4 sec.). The owner of Tesla, Elon Musk is in the process of building a battery factory here in the US larger than all battery factories in the world together. He also owns Space-X and Solar One, both successful. He is putting charging stations across the US as we speak, soon many will be solar and operate for free if you own a Tesla. Hybrids will work along side battery for a few years and maybe forever if they can make them faster. The science is already here it just takes time to mainstream it. The whole idea is to quit using fossil fuels and we are well on the way. There will always be uses for fossil fuels, North America has 20% of the worlds known reserves, we need to save that for the future.

 

If everyone who is now driving a gasoline car started driving an all electric car, it would shut down every major city completely, and causes thousands of deaths per year, and tens of thousands of malignant, persistent, debilitating, injuries.

The energy stored in an all electric car is hundreds, upon hundreds of kilograms of toxic metal and plastic, just waiting for a crash between two all-electric cars to start the rapid, cascading release of that energy and toxic metal-burnt plastic fumes in a fire that foam, water, and any other form of currently available fire fighting equipment cannot deal with, to set blowing in the toxic clouds at dozens of intersections of every major city everyday.

You currently see the ambulance lights, wreckers, and traffic backups from dozens of fender bender collisions every day in every city.

Now imagine that everyone of those accidents created a cloud of toxic metal-burnt-plastic vapor so poisonous that each causes a 1/3 mile radius to be evacuated by ALL people, even those indoors in houses and businesses to dislocated for a day.

Those closest, who were in the cars involved, are DEAD.

Those nearby, in other cars who tried to come to their aid, fire fighters or paramedics, or in nearby businesses or pedestrians, are suffering for the next ten years from lung damage, and will most likely eventually die from cancer.

Children would begin to be born with mutations and deformities from long term low exposure during pregnancy.

Think it THROUGH!

We do NOT have effective, auto-deploying, large scale battery pack energy diffusion systems!

We do NOT have effective Fire Fighter Sand Caster large scale battery pack equipment, training, and SCUBA toxic metal vapor environment suits.

We do NOT have that equipment and personal waiting at ready response at every street corner!

We do NOT have waiting evacuation transport buses with HEPA toxic metal vapor filtration systems or portable shelters with rapid deployment.



In my work helping the military develop DEW systems, I've worked with large scale, instant-spin-up, battery systems, and I will tell you from personal experience, all electric cars are the biggest environmental disaster we could possibly do to ourselves!

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We do NOT have waste battery recycling facilities, or the money set aside to pay for the disposal of wreck or non-wreck generated large scale battery pack waste streams!

We do NOT have infant HEPA filtration survival tents in our people's homes nursery closets.

We do NOT have child sized, trained and fitted SCUBA environment suits in each child's closet.

We do NOT have Adults/Parents with their own SCUBA environment suits, with the training and self-discipline to don their own suit FIRST, before beginning to work on the infant or child's with the military grade chemical response training and knowledge to KNOW that it is by far the best and right procedure to get themselves covered FIRST, so they will survive to possibly help their children!

The energy stored in chemical bonds of any hydrocarbon fuel, to be oxidized with air, when "Burned" has a factor known as energy density, or joules/kg.

The energy density of Dynamite and Jelly Donuts are with a factor of twenty percent in energy density.

Which would you rather have a car crash with? A truck load of TNT or a truck load of Donuts?

It is the Rate of Energy Release, and the fact that TNT is a compound which includes its own Oxidizer, so that denying oxygen by foam, or cooling with a water, will not stop the reaction, that makes TNT dangerous.


Those few Enviro-NAZIS who actually have engineering degrees, spent so much of their college class time writing papers about "Sky-is-Falling" Political Theater, that they never learned any real Engineering SCIENCE!

Gods Help U.S. if we let these ignorant, closed minded, amoral, Enviro-Zealots continue...


The enviro-NAZIS, blinded to reality by their zeal, will create the worst environmental disaster ever seen in human history!

THINK .... IT..... THROUGH!


P.S. There are perfectly reasonable, relatively safe, and cost effective alternatives for non-Gasoline personal transport energy storage technologies available, but the Radicals don't want a solution, they want the pet Crisis!


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That's idiotic.

You claim is clearly false and has been contradicted by several people with detailed numbers.

 

Where do you get this paranoid stuff from?

Have you ever seen a gas powered car catch fire? It happens pretty much daily.

What do you imagine happens to the toxic fumes generated by burning plastic, of which there are hundreds of pounds in every car.