I believe we may have come up with a viable compromise.

So Derideo_Te and I were debating in regards to gun control regulations and I believe we may have come up with a worthwhile solution that may be able to appease everyone involved.

According to some polls it seems that the majority of American's support UBC's for firearm sales. Well here is a solution that I believe will give these folks what they want while allowing gun owners to remain anonymous with their unregistered firearms.

You can get a background check on yourself whenever you want one, its like 20 bucks at the local law enforcement agency and they will send it up and get your results back to you in about a month or so. Simply take the paperwork with you when buying a gun. That way the seller has proof that you are not a criminal. What I will not support is forcing people to get a UBC BECAUSE they are buying a gun. Like when you go to the store to buy a gun and they send up your information for a background check it says "Background check to buy a Glock .45". It doesn't literally say those exact words but you know what i mean, it's letting them know you are getting a background check for the specific purpose of buying a firearm. Which means they know you are trying to buy a firearm, which means they know you probably did. So they know you have one.

I want that link to be severed. As I said a BC is like 20 bucks. If you can afford a firearm then you can afford 20 more bucks to get yourself a BC to present to the seller.

Just like you are required to show proof of insurance before you can drive a car off the lot at a dealership you can be forced to provide proof of a background check before you can walk out the door with your new firearm. We can make the regulation state something like the BC check must have been conducted within the past 3 months or something to ensure it is current. It covers all bases. A UBC has been conducted, you have proof you are not a psychopath or a criminal, therefore you should be allowed to purchase a firearm. If you show up to the store without your copy of your recent background check then you are free to have the store conduct it for you, however, you must know that by doing it this way it will be sent up as "UBC to purchase a firearm", if you are ok with that then by all means do so, if not then leave, go get your own blanket UBC done, return in a month, and buy your gun.

I have zero issues with that and it is something I would have no problem endorsing. I also have no real issues with making a law requiring all personal transactions fall under the same category. In order to sell a firearm to somebody they must first provide you with background check paperwork having been conducted within the past 90 days. Selling a firearm to somebody whose most recent background check has exceeded 90 days or was not presented at all will be considered illegal and people can come up with whatever punishments they feel are necessary in that case.

The UBC must be from either the State or the FBI, State level at a minimum. No private third party investigators will be allowed. You can use them if you like but your paperwork will not be valid for firearm transactions. Some states require finger prints, but all FBI level UBC's require fingerprints, so in order to avoid the "hassle" of providing your fingerprints (which isn't really a hassle but some might think it is thus making them not support this) we require that the State level UBC will be the minimum level UBC required to purchase a firearm.

What I have proposed here should be good enough to appease everyone. Those who want UBC's have their UBC's. Those of us who do not want any link between our firearms and ourselves will still be able to remain anonymous. Everyone is happy. That right there SHOULD be a good compromise.

Now I know what some will say. "This won't help anything", you are right it may not. However, Derideo_Te had a very valid point. Us gun enthusiasts simply cannot just keep telling the other camp to sit down and shut up. They aren't going to just go away and stop pushing for more laws so how about instead of just standing here with our arms crossed we actually bring them to the drawing board and come up with a solution that keeps all of us happy?

Under this proposal we can remain anonymous in regards to our guns. A UBC is blanket, you can get one whenever you feel like it. Yes it is one more step and it is an inconvenience but if anyone has ever actually gotten one you'll know that it doesn't take very long it's just filling out paperwork. No more difficult than renewing your drivers license for the most part. I feel that is an acceptable "inconvenience" in this case.

So there we have it. Those who want new gun laws have their UBC's, those of us who wish to remain anonymous when purchasing firearms can still do so. Both sides win. We have done "something" in regards to gun control.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

We are talking about the proposal that Derideo_Te and I came up with in this thread Ron.

We are fully aware of your own proposal in your own thread. Please discuss your proposal in your thread and discuss our proposal in this thread.

 

I can support this.

I guess what I am proposing is that a standard background check done by a person will be valid. For example if you go to the local police station, courthouse, DOJ building, order one online through the FBI, etc and receive the paperwork back then THAT is valid enough for purchasing a firearm whether through a licensed dealer or a private citizen. The need for an FFL to conduct a background check on you is not necessary because that provides information that you are wishing to purchase a firearm. If you want to go that route then you still can, but if I bring a copy of a BC that I have completed within the past 90 days that is valid as well. Either or.

I propose the law states something like this. A background check conducted at the State level or above within the past 90 days is valid and may be used to purchase a firearm at a licensed FFL dealer or a private citizen.

If a licensed dealer doesn't like not being able to run the BC on you themselves then they simply don't have to sell you the gun the same way they can do now. FFL's don't HAVE to sell you anything if they don't want to, same rule applies now. But if a BC is required then the one I bring in will suffice.

Background checks can be enforced, people can remain anonymous. For example I have background check paperwork for myself already do to my job. Recently updated. I can walk into a licensed store and purchase a firearm. When they say a BC is mandatory I can provide them with the paperwork that I have, it is valid and acceptable. I purchase the gun and I leave. The gun is unregistered, nobody knows I have it, but they couldn't sell me that unregistered gun unless I was able to provide them with my valid BC paperwork.

If a person walks in the store trying to buy a gun without their own BC paperwork then the FFL dealer will be required to conduct one on them before allowing them to purchase the firearm. But in this case the information about wishing the purchase the firearm will be sent up to people that some of us may not trust with such information. So in order to circumvent that I suggest people shell out their own 20 bucks and get a BC done themselves BEFORE going to the store.

As far as requiring the FFL to keep a copy of the paperwork? No, I will not require that. I will simply have to provide the official paperwork for them to see before they allow me to purchase the gun. They don't need to keep it on record, no records, I don't trust that. It will be up to me to keep the paperwork at my home. In the event I commit a crime and am unable to provide paperwork saying I have had a BC at some point in my history then go ahead with the extra 5 years in prison and fines.

Think of it like buying beer. The store clerk doesn't scan your ID card in a system when you buy beer they just look at it to make sure you are 21. Same with background check paperwork. No need to scan it or keep a copy of it, simply look at it and ensure it is valid and within the past 90 days. Alcohol sales are enforced through random stings and whatnot by law enforcement. Sure some people get away with fake ID's and stuff but that sort of thing is going to happen and we can't really stop that. Just like some people may be able to get away with forged BC paperwork but at least this policy will be some sort of screening process, better than no screening process at all.

Whats to stop me from using my clean BC paperwork to buy a few guns and sell them to my buddies off the books? Well nothing can stop that, just like nothing can stop me from buying a few cases of beer and giving them to my underage cousins. But as we have all discussed before, most gun owners are law abiding citizens who have clean backgrounds anyway. If they were going to sell guns to criminals then they are going to do it anyway and no law is going to prevent that. At least with this proposal we can stop most criminals from being able to walk directly into an FFL and purchase a firearm themselves. That will close off one of their avenues by which they access firearms when they shouldn't be able to.

Sound good?

 

The problem here is that we pro gun enthusiasts simply cannot just sit here and say "do nothing". We all know how this country is, they won't accept "nothing" as an answer. Before long people are going to start pushing for regulations, hell they already are pushing for regulations. Do you and I know these regulations probably won't do much? Yes we do. But it's better to appease them NOW by giving them SOMETHING such as our proposed UBC's than to stubbornly sit here with our arms folded shooting down any and every proposal they come up with.

Polls have shown that the majority of Americans want UBC's. I may be wrong but I believe the last poll I saw said something like 80% supports that. So how about we just give it to them? Under what I proposed we can give them what they want without compromising our own security. They still don't know who has all of our unregistered firearms, I can still buy unregistered firearms off the record, nothing changes, the only thing that changes is now I have to show the FFL dealer my paperwork first, not really much different than making me show my ID when I buy beer.

That way they have their UBC's, we have our unregistered guns and can still buy more unregistered guns. We have done "something".

You are right, it likely won't have the effect these people think it will, it may or may not, I honestly don't know. It's all about compromise. If we sit here and continue to say do nothing then eventually these people are going to make laws anyway. I am trying to intercept them in the middle and say ok hold on lets talk, here's what we'll do. Because if we let them have THEIR way completely then when they say we want UBC's they mean UBC's done through the FFL before you buy a gun. Meaning the NICS knows you just got a UBC to try to buy a gun, which means they know you bought a gun, which means they know you have a gun, you are in the database now in spite of what some will try to convince you of.

UBC's are going to happen eventually I am almost certain of it. Like I said 80% of the people want them. The government isn't going to just ignore 80% of the people forever to appease the 20% of us who don't want them. ESPECIALLY not this current Administration. So instead of letting them have their way completely I'm saying we meet them in the middle. Fine, we'll give you your UBC's but we will do them ourselves. We'll pay the money and have the State or FBI run a BC on us and then provide the paperwork to the dealer before buying a gun, like I do an ID when buying Budweiser. That way you still get your UBC's but there is no record of me buying guns with it the way a licensed FFL UBC would have.

We have to compromise man, I hate it too, but we have to face reality, ignore these people and they aren't going to just go away, we have to give them SOMETHING or they will take EVERYTHING.

 

It can't really FORCE you to provide BC paperwork during private transactions. We can make that the law, but just because its the law doesn't mean people are going to follow it. The same way I'm not supposed to hand out beers to random teenagers on the beach in Florida during spring break. Yeah it's illegal for me to do that but no real law can MAKE me not do that. (I don't do that BTW its an example).

Think of it like when you go to the gas station to buy beer. Half the time I go in there and they don't check my ID, other half they do. The reason why clerks check ID's is because its the law and sometimes cops do walk in there or send somebody in there and watch to see if the clerk checks ID or not. Thats how the bust people. Same thing here. The law is you cannot sell a firearm to somebody unless they provide official BC paperwork having been conducted within the past 90 days. Cops will simply do stings the way they enforce ID laws. Every once and awhile a cop will be who answers the ad in the classifieds section on AR-15.net. He's going to show up without BC paperwork or expired BC paperwork and see if you'll sell the gun. If you do then thats your ass.

Sort of like how a good chunk of prostitution ads on the internet are actually cops looking for the idiot who actually shows up to room 2B at the hotel and gives the hooker cash. Or how cops routinely dress up as low lifes and walk up to drug dealers and try to buy drugs.

I don't really like the fact that cops do that sort of thing but they do it, so this would be no different. They'll enforce it the way they enforce other laws like this. Randomly setting up stings to catch people who aren't following the law.

 

I understand where you're coming from. But I'm telling you man mark my words, you KNOW how this country is, this liberal government is going to do something. We've seen it time and time again, this Administration has zero problem with giving states rights and the Will of the People the middle finger when they want to.

Even as we speak Obama is cooking up some sort of Executive plan to do "something". Lord knows what that "something" is but knowing the guy who is about to execute it I can almost guarantee you that it'll be something we don't like.

The other side of the fence is about to punch us directly in the mouth. They are gearing up to do it right now. We can stand here in defiance with our arms crossed and they will simply say "Fine, you don't want to do anything? Then we'll do something, watch this".

Last thing we want is this Liberal government making laws we have to follow. The best we can do is meet them halfway and throw our 2 cents in before they just completely give us the middle finger entirely. 80% of this country wants UBC's. If we let them have their UBC's without speaking up then they will implement a law stating we must get a UBC through the FFL thus putting our names in that database. We don't want that, but that's what they are about to do. Only thing we can do is come up with a solution of our own and see if they will meet us half way. What I have proposed gives them their UBC's but keeps us out of their database. If we leave it up to them they will have our names in their database.

The Liberal NY State Government enacted that NY Safe Act in the middle of the night without telling anybody. The Governor signed that thing without even bringing it to the State Legislature. That is how they operate. And now we actually have 80% of the US population saying they want UBC's. You really think they won't get that? Liberals want strict gun laws, 80% of the people want UBC's, what is to stop this Liberal government of ours from just saying "Excellent! Lets make federal UBC's then!". They enact laws in the middle of the night without even telling people, of course they will enact that law now that the majority of the country wants it...

 

No but the entire purpose of "threads" is to discuss specific topics within the threads. That is why we have different threads in which we post instead of one large blanket thread that includes everything.

 

I'll roll with that. But the BC that I provide is a blanket one that I got on my own from the State or the FBI. Think of it as an ID card used to buy alcohol.

Fair deal?