I will now prove atheists are illogical!

"I" cant enlighten you...only the Spirit of God can. And per scripture (I quote with that authority, NOT mine!).."No man comes to God unless the Spirit draws him.'

And as "He stands at the door and 'knocks,"..not 'breaking the door down'....a hard heart will not open that door to receive Him.

 

All of scripture is 'dead letter printed on paper pages' w/o the Spirit to illuminate them to the heart of man.

And those who read the scriptures with contempt and not seeking truth will get nothing from them. And a sincere seeker of truth must read them cover-to-cover to put together the message in them...

..The basic message being:

men fall of themselves and need a Savior (they cannot 'save' themselves from themselves), as from the beginning, and God prepared a "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world' in His wisdom. And One, who could identify with the temptations & suffering of fellow mankind as being born by the flesh of man, was an obedient servant unto His death, even to His death on a cross. And because of Him and His righteousness, 'whom so ever' believes in Him and His work on the cross as a substitute for their sins (failings, shortcomings, and missing the std of God), has eternal life...and the creation we live in, from the Tree of Life in the garden in Genesis to the same Tree of Life in the last chapter of the last book of Revelation, shows the plan of God of 'restoration' as being completed.

 

Too late for you to have any standing in logic.

 

And that goes right to the hear tof our differences in morality Shiva.

I have seen a LOT of adultry. I have never, not once, seen adultry result in anything good. Even by the atheist standard of the Golden Rule, its wrong. You violate your own honor and integrity, you violate the commitment to your family placing some tart as moe important than family, and, as a minimum, you tear apart the fabric of trust in what should be the most important relationship in your life. That's not even to begin with the effects that the behavior has on business and organization culture, essentially ripping the fabric of teh organization apart.

Its totally dishonest, build upon lies and deliberate deceit. You lie to the woman you are with, your wife and children, colleagues to cover it up. Its cowardace. Your marriage is in trouble? So rather than talking with and communicating with your wife (perhaps that just might be part of the problem?) you sleep with another woman in an act of cowardace and avarice.

Nothing good comes from adultry, and yet, here you are rationalizing it?

Do we see how objective standards help? How, once a week, going before God with, though shalt not covet they neighbors wife, commit adultry, lie, steal, etc., brings you to have to confront your actions. Does adultry happen? You bet. Its one of the most destructive things that humans do, and when it happens .... its best to honor up and acknowledge it and begin that process of repentence and atonement.

Or I suppose you can just rationalize it and pretend that, like prostitution and with an entire supply of human sex slaves to service that sin, its just a victimless crime and no harm was ACTUALLY done - therefore there is no need to repent. To apologize. No standard to be held to.

THAT is the difference between atheism and Christianity/Islam/Buddhism/Juddaism/Hinduism ... and even secular humanism.

 

Anything written by men, including that statement above, has an agenda.

And what is our agenda? Well, we've said it publically with our standards and hang our proverbial hat on our standards. By all mean, tell me why the agenda of the ten commandments and the teachings of Jesus are now nefarious?

But the entire intellectual basis of atheism is pure, agendaless? Or simply a double standard?

 

<tangent>
The reason is known. When you get down to that size of particle, the energy of just a photon of light is enough to change the particle.
</tangent>

The rules against adultery seems to be rather universal throughout cultures and I would say it is common sense. I don't think that religion is needed for stigmatism. I think it would be present in the absence of religion.

Where I think it would get into any sort of grey area is what would one define as adultery. For example, some Christian denominations consider remarrying after a divorce as adultery; some do not. I can see the logic in both schools of thought so one can't say that either of them are wrong.

The Bible from which your standards derive is a book penned by man. The claim is that it comes from God is one that is debatable. It is known that the Bible has been translated to countless languages. Translation has been known to corrupt the meaning of words even in the most recent of literary texts. It has been revised for various political/social reasons. Heck, there is a movement trying to rewrite the Bible now because some passages are considered to be too liberal.

Even giving the benefit of the doubt that the Bible is the word of God, that word had long been diluted over the millennia. I cannot see how one can differentiate between the expectations of God versus a rule that a man with agenda added. Can we even be certain that these rules added by man do not conflict with what is expected of us by God?

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35TbGjt-weA"]I don&#39;t want to live on this planet anymore - YouTube[/ame]

 

Ah. Good to know. Thank you. Now it's easier to explain...

 

The 10 commandments might be one of the most redundant and unnecessary documents ever contrived. For one, most people need not be told that killing and lying are bad. Studies have shown that children worldwide have an aversion to these things naturally. Our species, being so social wouldn't have survived without it.

Their are also completely pointless commandments that serve no other purpose than stroke the ego of a supernatural sky daddy. Thou shall worship no other or take my name in vein or fail to keep my day holy are morally bankrupt and show n unusual amount of vannity and ego in a supposedly perfect being.

Perhaps even nastier are the commandments that are "missing". Rape, genocide, etc. The golden rule trumps and predates the bible.

 

You do not have special powers that i do not. You do not speak for God either. The hubris in thinking you have the one true interpretation of the scriptures is laughable.

 

I don't believe in ghosts either.......

 

So was eth diary of Ann Frank. No one claims that the main message of that volume has been drastically misconstrued. With the numerous translations in effect, there are obviously way to ensure that the translation is accurate - and teh simple test of validity is that all copies of the Bible, despite different language follow basically the same canon.

FOr example, 1 Corinthians 13 in the KJV of teh Bible is written as charity, in the NIV, its written as Love. Neither is 'wrong' but get at the same principle in slightly different manner - together, in reading those 'translations' you begin to get the overall intent that a single translation of the words would miss. Love being paramount, and the great expression of love is ... charity.

The idea that this confuses rather than educated the process, is little mre than an attempt to toss shoes into the works to gum them up. Its finding fault for the sake of finding fault rather tan assesing to engage intent and accuracy.

 

Oh, the Golden Rule means that you shoudl misconstrue and castigate other people's faith does it? When the ten commandments came out ... they were anything but redundant. Perhaps you should take a gander at Babylon and the excesses of Baal worshippers.

And if they are so simple, why do atheists have such a tough time coming up with a set of standards of their own? Why is the golden rule .... basically an appeal to emotion alone, all you can come up with?

And even then, it it do onto others as they do onto you? Or do onto others, as the Bible states, as you would have others do unto you?

THe idea that atheism made this up before the Bible is silliness itself.

 

_
Attack the points, not the Atheistic bogey man you constantly argue with, alone.

The bible is no great moral guide and you know it, which is why you have to construct a convenient strawman about the Atheist movement, or all them God haters, because defending your ludicrous beliefs would take backflips even you couldn't pull off.

I never said the Golden rule was made up by Atheists. I said it was superior to the bible and it pre-dated it, but you just go ahead and keep making stuff up.

Show me how i have misconstrued the bible? The golden rule has little to do with my reasons for lampooning your bronze age myths. I suppose i castigate the faith because for centuries doing so would land one a death sentence, or at the least complete social ostracism. It is only until recently than people have been allowed to break the silence and point out these things for what they are, completely out dated and utterly disgusting superstition. Which is good, because silence is the ally of faith, and it is only ideas and conversation that shows these things for what they are.

Count yourself lucky we don't follow the golden rule and burn you at the cross for sharing a difference in opinion.

As for secular morality, Americans live with it every day. For years we have shed the enlightenment retarding laws proposed and enacted by the Religious. The only laws left are those that have a strong secular reason for being. This isn't to say that their isn't room for improvement, their are a few more hurdles yet to overcome.

Not even the "Religious" follow the bible, anymore. Most have not even read it. Than their are the cafeteria style Christians, who apply their infinitely more superior innate morality to the bible, or vice versa, their bigotry, and only come away with verses and passages that supported their points of view to begin with. It takes a special type of indoctrination to read the bible and take it as gospel.

Last but not least, the Baal worshipers. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see what a people can do when doing the work of one they worship.

Good day sir, i wish you luck in demonizing atheists, my work is done by your book. Lol.

 

Those are the points being attacked. If you take pot shots at other people's faith, you cannot scream foul when the pointed criticism is aimed back at your own faith choice.

#1 - Please re-read your first sentence.

#2 - the derisive opinion has been noted and rebutted on numerous occasions. Go ahead a definitievly prove there is no God, or stop with te silly condescending BS about a faith you clearly do not understand in the slightest.

Good, now support that contention rather than simple stating it. Unthinking Dogma is supposed to be something you atheists hate?

Well, by not actually addressing any of it? Perhaps?

Yep, that is clearly the golden rule. So, you apparently do not follow the golden rule, and apparently criticism of your position is highly offensive ... yours? THe emobidment of freedom.

Please referrence previous posts about the failure of atheists to use of acknowledge objective standards.

The vast majority of Christians are secular, having arisen out of the the 30 Years War in Europe. The vast majority of our legislators are clearly Christian as well. Athesits in power? Well, consider North Korea.

I'd say your version of clearing hurdles has already been tried by history, and the imposition of your opinion? Well, isn't that what you accuse us of doing to you?

See previous posts about the failure of atheists to use or acknowledge objective standards.

Well, perhaps you should actually read the Bible then? It my prove far more illuminiating then simply telling us what is says and does not say ... while accusing us of selfishly and alsvishly following our own prejuduces.

Your prejudices seem just fine.

Well, that is your period alternative to ancient Juddaism. I guess teh standard changed once again? Anything to bad mouth the faithful?

See note about confirming prejudices.

Congratulations on being the latest atheists to be eraptured by critcism of everything but his own positions. I somehow predict that, should you continue to be pressed, the emotional basis of your logic will be revealed in short order ... as it so often is wth atheists who begin a debate - one that requires disagreement - by claiming the status of super victim right off the bat.

 

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