Idea on Solution Marriage Equality Debate

Its blatant social engineering - you give people a break for having children, you encourage people to have children. If people want children, then they should be responsible for their children including the cost, they should not push onto others their financial burdens - particularly financial burdens they voluntarily accept.

If you want children, or a college education, or a house, you do what it takes to achieve those. Don't force everyone else to involuntarily fund your goals.

And for every penny you reduce one persons taxes, you raise other peoples taxes. And if you say "Those other people can afford it" then you are neck deep in social engineering.

Don't forget LGBTs and "progressives", the aggressive use and abuse of govt power is their primary tool to impose their agenda.

This thread is not the entire world, this forum is not the entire world. Its obvious the LGBTs are engaged in a war on religion.

 

So you don't think churches should have tax exempt status?

The agenda of equality? It was built on that agenda.

LGBT are at war with people that think they should be stoned to death? With people that created laws to attack and subjugate homosexuals, with people that think they should be put through torture in order to pretend to not exist? If it is a war religion has been the aggressor for at least a thousand years. But there hasn't been a single blow against religion yet.

So your victimhood is laughable.

 

I mostly agree, but children need to be protected. No child should go hungry. If there was a method to stop irresponsible people from reproducing I would be all for it - unfortunately society has to deal with their poor decisions.

Government is the primary way all groups impose their agenda, fast approaching is social media. It is not limited to just the left.

I never said it was, you specifically stated that gay marriage was not about equality but instead was about assaulting religion. Prove it.

Then explain why, when gay people attempted civil unions, it was killed by religious individuals. Looks like you have your victim and the assailant confused...

 

As I wrote in post #20, and in many other posts, "In fact, I have always argued that there should not even be a tax exempt or tax deductible category at all, not for politics or charities or religion."

The govt should base tax policy only on what is needed to fund govt activity, not on what the govt wants people to do or not to do, not to reward certain activity, or on social engineering, or picking favorites or "winners".

Total BS.

How many people here have even insinuated that LGBTs should be put to death, stoned, or tortured? NOBODY. Have I ever made such a claim? NO.

The entire basis for your claim is total BS based on propaganda and lies. With the exception of Islam and that's a very recent item, there is no religion in the USA - certainly no Christian church - running around wanting LGBTs to be stoned to death, murdered, or tortured.

Your victimhood is beyond laughable, its pathetic and dishonest - just like all the LGBT claims that they are not in a war on religion.

 

The objective of "marriage equality" was not so gays could marry and receive equal treatment from the govt, it was a stepping stone in the gay (now LGBT) in the war on religion. Making gay marriage a "right" gives the LGBTs a legal wedge to attack churches directly - immediately (the after) obergefell was decided gay activists started clamoring for churches to lose their tax exempt status if they did not respect the "right" of LGBTs to marry by performing gay marriages (and if they preached homosexuality was a sin).

And there is this expansion in which the accommodation laws are made more potent because of the newfound "right" for gays to marry:

 

SCOTUS has already ruled that churches are exempt, there are a few churches near me (Appalachia) that still refuse to marry interacial couples, do you feel that interacial marriage was also secretly a "war on religion"?

People have been crying for years about churches receiving tax exempt status. Try again.
How are LGBT people as a whole, or even a sizable minority, attacking religion? The ICRC is not a gay organization, in case you got confused - it is similar to the ACLU.

You made the claim that gay people are attacking religious people and that marriage equality was a Trojan Horse. Prove it. And then explain why religious people fought so hard to prevent non-religious civil unions.

 

Right on!!!


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The supreme court has NOT ruled that churches are exempt from accommodation law and the "right" of LGBTs to marry. In fact, in the oral arguments of obergefell, that subject was discussed and the infringement on religion was NOT protected.

Kennedy's opinion did NOT protect religious freedom, he wrote: "Finally, it must be emphasized that religions, and those who adhere to religious doctrines, may continue to advocate with utmost, sincere conviction that, by divine precepts, same-sex marriage should not be condoned. The First Amendment ensures that religious organizations and persons are given proper protection as they seek to teach the principles that are so fulfilling and so central to their lives and faiths, and to their own deep aspirations to continue the family structure they have long revered. The same is true of those who oppose same-sex marriage for other reasons."

People can talk about religion - but that's all.

And in the obergefell dissenting opinions, the clear threat to religious liberty was a prime topic.

I see you have to rely on false misleading irrelevant issues to make your case.

Its one thing to oppose tax exempt status in general - I oppose any tax exempt condition, no tax exemption for churches, political groups, charities - and its quite another to specifically target religions that oppose LGBTs.

And targeting certain churches was done right after obergefell - not target all churches, just the ones that would not obey the LGBT demands.

The LGBTs own actions prove it.

I answered that in the previous post - LGBTs attack anyone who openly does not support the LGBT lifestyle. Even in this forum, when you scratch below the surface of the LGBTs who say they "just want to live without being bothered" and they don't want to infringe on anyone else, it turns out they actually don't like religion or religious people and want those religious people shut out of the public square and their businesses shut down for the "protection" of the LGBTs.

Read this thread, its clear from the posts of some "progressive" and "patriotic" LGBTs they want to use the govt to impose upon people.

Some religious people fought against non-religious civil unions - and so did many gays. This has been discussed in the forum ad infinitum - the gays didn't want it because they claim civil unions would not give them "equality" and they would net receive all the govt treats that a married couple receives - and as is now plainly obvious they want the legal right to marry in order to gain that legal wedge to attack religion directly.

And since you might not have read all my posts, I always supported civil unions - I prefer the govt stay out of such personal matters as marriage (also something I have posted in the forum from the beginning) but if the govt does get involved the govt should treat all people equally.

I used to even support gay marriage, until I wised up in 2014 and saw it was just one step in the LGBT war on religion.

 

Dude - there have been over 30,000 same sex marriages - if your church being forced to marry gay couples thingy was an ACTUAL ISSUE, don't you think it might
have cropped up by now?

There were far more lawsuits brought by heterosexual couples during the Miscegenation Law time then there has been from gay couples.

Your fear is a non-issue. Get over it.

 

And all of you who claim there is nothing to worry about have been proven wrong over and over again, to the point that only a blind person believes you.

When gays claimed they "just wanted a place at the table", they lied. When they said they did not want to infringe on any religious practice, they lied. They say what they need to say to fool people as long as possible.

Now Iowa state - not a town, but the state - is using accommodation law to directly attack churches who oppose the LGBTs -

Note that a "church service open to the public" is not protected - all church services are open to the public, all church activities are open to the public, so what the Iowa so-called "civil rights" commission is stating is that no church is exempt in any way from obeying the LGBT mandate.

 

There is quite a bit more at issue here than that.

No, because there is no other purpose in doing so than to appease the most degenerate factions in society.

To which problem is that a solution?

 

Has any church been forced to marry a same sex couple?
Has a Catholic Church been forced to marry a Jewish couple?
Has a Synagogue been forced to marry a Mormon couple?

End of story.

 

You didn't say the lgbt was waging war on people here, you said they were waging war on religion. I was pointing out how religion has been waging war an lgbt people. As a matter of fact religion is the cause of 50 deaths in Orlando Florida it targeted lgbt. Religous parents force their children into psycological torture for being lgbt, you may call it conversion therapy. The bible says to kill lgbt people, the quran says to kill lgbt people. There was Doma, it's only purpose was to influence public with religion.

Religion cannot tolerate lgbt people. They ate justified in attacking religion.

So the bible is propaganda and lies? I wouldn't go that far.
--Leviticus 20:13--"a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

So show me all these Christians attacking Leviticus 20:13

I am not a victim, I'm a warrior. Certian religion has no place in the age of reason. As long as it holds its views against homosexuality I'll do everything i can to stamp it out.

It's war. Religion fired the first shot.

 

Religious right of refusal is not permitted in the public sphere (aka bakeries), churches always have been protected of they would be forced to marry interacial and same sex couples - which they are not.

He was talking about "religious freedom (to discriminate)" in non religious institutions - such as a gas station. Your religious freedoms end when they effect another except in church.

In the public sphere. Don't want to serve gays, don't open a business advertising as open to the public. Open a church or members only club instead.

So it is false and misleading to point out prior president... Lol. Ok I guess someone just doesn't want to respond to this one.

Orginizations like these have been doing this long before same sex marriage. That was just there new attempt at reopening the case - it failed - and was not a gay orginization which you specifically said were the perpetrators.

By a non-gay civil rights orginization that was attempting it long before same sex marriage.

I know many gay religious people so that's incorrect. As for wanting business shut down - these people just want to be served equally.

Cant find one, I've already asked you to link it twice

You didn't answer the question.

I agree

ok, then post examples

 

Good luck getting any state or federal government to go along with it. I wouldn't mind it, but I know several people (heterosexual) that would fight it tooth and nail because they want the government to recognize their union as marriage.

The best solution is for people to just get over it. It's done, gays can marry, it's called marriage, move on.

- - - Updated - - -

We are friends with two gay couples that got married within the last 4 years. Please show how their marriage is a war on religion?

 

If the govt would stop involving itself in social engineering (trying to make people fit into the govt mold) then many problems would go away - the govt is the cause of many problems related to education, housing, health, the war on drugs. The so-called "great recession" is largely due to govt meddling in housing. Education is a disaster (particularly in large cities) because of govt meddling. It takes forever to approve new medications because of govt "oversight". The govt mandates school lunches and monitors what parents send in, nobody likes the govt food and kids smuggle in junk food.

 

And that same short sighted attitude was common in 1939 Germany - "has any Jew been sent to the gas chamber? has any Jew been sent to concentration camps? Has any synagogue been burned? End of story, nothing to worry about, the Nazi's won't do anything bad."

In Iowa, due to the Iowa state "civil rights" commission, Iowa accommodation law mandates all religious institutions stop preaching homosexuality is a sin and must perform gay weddings.

Your pro-LGBT propaganda doesn't hold any longer.

 

I actually agree with you on this government meddling creates a lot of problems.

 

You are simply not telling the truth.
There have been numerous cases brought before the courts - none have ever found it Constitutional to force a pastor or priest to marry any couple that
they did not want to. This goes for gay couples, inter-race couples, or couples who do not conform to the church's religious beliefs.
The Supreme Court has backed these rulings.

You are simply fear-mongering a position that does not stand up to real world applications.

 

First, thanks for admitting that homosexuality is a sin in the Old testament. I assumed all your previous claims that homosexuality was not a sin were lies and propaganda, thanks for confirming my assumption.

And how many gays have been stoned to death Jews or Christians in the past 200 years? None.

Levitticus only applies to Jews who practice Judaism, not to all humanity. So you are wrong and show your ignorance in using it as an example for "religion" wanting to kill LGBTs.

There is nothing in the New testament (Christianity) that declares LGBTs should be killed, not even close.

Islam - yes, muslims are required to kill LGBTs, but muslims are also required to kill Jews and Christians. Religions vary - but that does not matter to people who are filled with hate and just want to stamp out all religion, and stamp out anyone who does not agree with their view.

So thanks for confirming all my suspicions - LGBTs are filled with hate and want and seek a religious war.

 

Well the discrimination and the repeal of the oberfel decision rely on these untruths.

 

Who gives a (*)(*)(*)(*)? You think god commands you to do it. Or the bible is wrong. It's one or the other.

So Jesus destroyed the Jewish god, or proved it wrong, or god completely changed his mind? If it's the same god he did a complete 180.

Religion actually kills lgbt.

So the old testament is complete garbage and they leave it in the bible so you have toilet paper or something?

I don't really care about what religion says this or that. I don't care that they agree with my views. People are allowed to join whatever cult they want. My issue comes up when these people try to engineer society with their cult laws. It's your choice to waste your life in a cult or not. You can even schill for your cult i don't care. But your cult doesn't grant you extra rights and privileges.

You thought that in the first place. So nothing i said really confirmed anything.

I can't talk any sense into you, I've tried, you're just like a feminist that says all men are misogynistic. You're not only in a religious cult you're more importantly in a victim cult.

 

What a load of SJW garbage.

I bet you think all white people are racist too.

 

I'm tired of trying to talk sense to these SJW types. It's more productive to talk to a brick wall.

You believe the lgbt is out to eat your babies, burn your churches down with you in them, and so forth because some bigot lost her business over breaking a law. I don't think that's really it, i think lgbts and the strides made to equality has simply shook your weak faith to its very sandy foundation, and you're lashing out emotionally, but you think you can jarrymander an instance of a law regulating a secular business into some sort of attack on religion. You weren't rational in the first place. And the "woe is me" attention seeking crap is kind of pathetic.

 

The world changes. Eight years ago, nobody would have believed USA race relations would be set back 50 years, and the world would be on the verge of a world war. Ten years ago, nobody would believe that one of the big issues on the national stage is which elementary school bathroom a child should use. In 1980, nobody would have believed that in 10 years the USSR would not exist. Two years ago, who would have believed that the 2 people running for President would be Hilary and Trump?

The world changes, you can't just look in the rear view mirror.

LGBTs are in a war against religion, they have been for a long time, the trend is clear.