Ideologies Changing?

I believe we are in the middle of an ideological shift in American politics.

Traditional Eisenhower Republicans are now the new Democrats. Democrats are not liberals, they reject that term. They want "free" trade to give away our jobs and lower wages across the board, they are pro fracking, pro fossil fuel extraction (to a point), pro nuclear arsenal, pro drone attacks without warrants, pro top down law enforcement, pro wall street, pro banker, and have left unions and the working class for dead.

Traditional liberals who were staunchly pro choice, anti-nuclear, anti fossil fuel, anti-war, anti-CIA, pro legalization (drugs and prostitution), anti "free" trade, anti-banker, anti- wall street, pro racial diversity, anti-police brutality, pro living wage Democrats have been relegated to third parties like the Greens or Socialists.

"Know Nothing" populists have become the new Republicans. Anti-immigration, anti-war (for the most part), isolationist, anti wall street/banker, anti-wealth, pro theocratic, anti-diversity, anti- "free" trade, states rights, locality-first type party. The folks the wealthy elite of the Republican party had left behind, or thought they did.

I think my analysis is correct, because to me Democrats seem like Republicans, Republicans are becoming the old, old guard, and the only candidates trying to do something to stop both parties from continuing to harm our citizens are Greens and Libertarians and Anarchists.

Very sad times we live in

 

Don't know about America, but in my own country, the least liberal are those who consider themselves 'far left', and sometimes even just left of centre. Conservatives remain pretty much the same, and don't really get involved much other than in issues relating to immigration and LGBT stuff. Even then, they're saying the same things they always did.

The most problematic group (by far) currently is the new brand of far leftist ... aka, Progressive. They are essentially totalitarians, and are as illiberal as it gets. They tolerate no diversity, and brook no difference. They're extremely destabilising to civic life, and to make matters worse are garnered from the ranks of the "privileged white dysfunctionals". The children of first world problem domestic discord. Those with the lowest emotional IQs, in other words. Ergo, incapable of perceiving that they're emotionally driven (to Progressivism as a cult), and therefore act out their dogma religiously. They act against their own interests, and they act against ours. They're effectively children, playing at world shaping. Normally this wouldn't be dangerous, it would be merely a humorous curiosity - but they've marketed their dubious product as 'hipster virtue', and thereby attracting all remaining unconverted flakes. It's like bad fashion, or heroin chic, but seeped into and now saturating politics and media.

 

Everything seems to be changing now. I am far left, but not in the way you describe at all. I want jobs in my country, paid at good wages, and products made in my country as well. That is my number one issue. Without that, society will come apart.

 

I dont think everything is changing but there certainly are issues like free trade that are now switching to Democrats.

 

I have noted major shifts over the last ten years which have left me in a quandary. Ten years ago I was a relatively staunch Republican with conservative leanings and mostly Regan type beliefs. The onset of Tea Party tactics and flavor in the party soured it and when the Party decided to go with Trump (a democrat and idiot) I abandoned it completely. The democrat candidate bares more resemblance to the Reagan Republican mindset than the freakin' GOP nightmare.
The TrumpHumpers that have become the new Republicans will now call me silly names and deny my comments with pointless distraction.

 

So-called political ideologies are a cancer to society!

Somehow most people think they can wrap themselves around a single party and this party will match exactly the preferences of all 50 million members...total BS!

What's even more stupid are those voters who every single year of their lives vote solely for their party candidates...this is most voters!

In this form of two-party politics...us against them...it is guaranteed that every election about 50% of the voters are going to be disappointed.

At no place in the above political process does anyone ever vote for what's in the best interest of the USA!

If we truly wished to clean up Washington, to stop the political roadblocks, to find consensus, to actually do what is in the best interest of the USA...we need to abolish the Dem and Rep parties!

But we can't do this because most of us are too stupid to exist outside of group mentality, we would actually be required to read and analyze and think, and because the cancer has inflicted so many voters they are doomed to an eternity of self-serving politics...

 

Actually, many repubs are now echoing the dems from the 1960s, calling for free-speech and voicing a distrust of "The Man.'

Dems are now the party of speech restrictions, big government interfering in most people's lives and big proponents of the surveillance state. Funny how things change...

 

All of them pander for votes and nothing else!

What's so stupid about the whole thing is that reasonable and intelligent people can find acceptable policy from both parties, which is code that most Americans really want the same things but will never know this because they are hell-bent on voting party lines...and the two parties are hell-bent on convincing their sheep that the other party and candidates are evil...

 

I think ideologies are shifting, but this sort of thing has happened before. To me, we're drifting away from the traditional left/right paradigm to a more globalist/nationalist one. We can see this with prominent globalist Republicans deserting the Republican Party to vote Democrat. If there is a similar movement of Democrats to Republicans, it's not nearly as prominent since it would be working class types, not anyone actually prominent or known in the party. This seems to be happening all over the Western world where globalists overplay their hand. Would Merkel's party have been losing to resurgent German nationalist ones if she hadn't embraced her inner cat lady to let all of those rapefugees into her country?

 

Liberalism is a disease, the sooner we eliminate it the better.

 

Why stop there? Society can never get it together without the many systems we have running now. The capability to make transition slowly into decentralization of everything vital, increases efficiency. With functional social systems fully recognizing shared concerns, massive conservation is possible . Mostly , at the onset of functionality courts need to be very capable far beyond just rights, so the people have the most cogent interface with officialdom and authority.

There are technically, constitutionally two ways to operate government. 1) with democracy. 2) with law.

Law is actually far more efficient than democracy. The principles of the republic, ideally publicly approved on a regular basis so the people are in the loop, is required.

 

I think you are wrong about DEMS. Bernie injected some fresh blood into the corpse.

- - - Updated - - -

WHO PROGRAMS the technocracy?

 

It must be programmed by needs, unalienable rights. We do this by more and more, only transacting with the technocracy that recognizes unalienable rights. Natural law in the end, enabled by the purpose of free speech,

 

I emphatically agree that we're seeing a repolarization. Began with Brexit.

I agree to some extent with your analysis of where each side is moving to. I think the Democrats are going to largely abandon their civil liberties base in favor of disenfranchised neoconservatives from the GOP. They will be very pro-Internationalism, not necessarily free trade, but rather very pro-US trade. They will support a continuation or the foreign policies of the Bush/Obama era.

The GOP will become some variety of caricature of nationalism. They will oppose the delegation of national sovereignty to regional or international governments (when it suits them politically), be generally impartial on most civil liberties issues. The GOP will be ruled by populism rather than ideology. They will support realignment with Russia.

I feel the new paradigm will hang civil liberties out to dry. Neither side is going to take it up. The left needs to fight back against the GOP with laws against offensive speech, trigger warnings on campus, etc.

[Hr][/hr]

I like the move towards an embracing of national sovereignty and a rejection of the political elite on the right, but worry that they're embracing nationalism for the wrong reasons.

For instance, I emphatically supported Brexit, but was worried quite deeply about the protectionist tendencies of the movement.

 

You have tried for millennia... Not happening.

Cicero

 

I have lived from Truman to Obama. I have observed the changes. I have seen us move from an economy that while not perfect, was structured to provide living wage jobs for americans, which always means the elites cannot max out profits. And then, I saw that change, from one economic model, to this new one, open borders free trade globalization. Which has naturally created greater disparity in income than we had in the gilded age. Now, when you grow disparity in income, by whatever device or tool is used, you create social problems, fiscal problems, and political change, and we are seeing that with this election cycle. Or, an attempt at change, as evidenced by sanders and trump. Both are anti open borders, anti free trade. Open borders free trade globalization IS the device or tool that is creating greater income disparity, which creates suffering for millions of americans. And this suffering gave us trump and sanders.

To understand what is really going on, which MSM will never inform anyone of, you just have to look back at HOW we got to where we are today, economically. For as James Cueball Caraville once said, "it's the economy stupid". How did we get from an economy that provided jobs, living wage jobs, and the American dream for new generations, to an economy where most new jobs are non living wage part time jobs? Where you have a new generation of americans who have few hopes and must live at home with parents, burdened by student loans which is taking the place of a house payment, with dire job possibilities?

How we got here began with a change in economic philosophy, a change from new deal philosophy, into neoliberalism philosophy. It began with the election of Reagan, but was carried forth to great damage by Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Obama, and soon perhaps, Clinton. So, the Bushes and the Clintons changed America. From them came open borders free trade globalization. On behalf of first the banking cabal, and then the MNCs and the elites who own them. But look at what it has done to the americans who must work for their living. And look how it has helped tremendously the elites in this nation. At a great cost to the rest in America, unless you are in the professional class.

These changes lead up to this election cycle. The suffering, and pissed off attitudes of average americans gave us sanders and trump, for both of these men are against the changes given to us by the Bushes and the Clintons, on behalf of our elites. The problem is, sanders would have been a much better candidate, to become president to take on this treason, but because of a rigged primary system, in part, and democratic voters wanting a woman president, we got trump. Trump is the only choice now for the americans who have been devastated by open borders free trade globalization. And not the best one to take it on, but we have no one else.

So, this has created what the gentleman laid out in his OP here. This election cycle is very similar to Brexit. These changes we are seeing in ideology, is a threat to the status quo, which is devastating americans, which will only worsen, with TPP. It was so bad that during the democratic primary, the open borders free trading globalist , Hillary, had to back pedal on TPP, and move towards trump and sanders. But she is lying. She did not say it was a gold standard for naught. And she was involved somewhat in it from the get-go. And so the establishment which includes the media is waging war on this anti open borders, anti free trade globalism, as it was waged on Brexit, and they do it in part by coloring the anti open borders, anti free trade globalist as...wait for it...racists, isolationists, nationalists. Equating this to Nazism. To put the American people first, is now considered hateful. How clever, but it works all to well. But it is nothing but establishment propaganda.

But here is the good news or bad news, depending on which side you are on. What open borders free trade globalism is doing to americans is bad, really bad, for it hurts their ability to thrive by their own work. And now that the taboo is broken, now that the cat is out of the bag, it will be hard to put that cat back in the bag. You could not question free trade until this election cycle. Obama was questioned on it, he mostly dismissed it, until he had to say he would take a look at free trade. Which he did, and he gave us more free trade, with TPP which is the death knell for working americans. But it returned and gave us sanders and trump. No one in MSM is talking about this. On purpose. For it is a huge issue, and they want it to go away, on behalf of the establishment democratic party and republican party. The two parties that gave us open borders free trade.

If the anti free traders would unite behind trump, as bad as he is, at least that is a move in the right direction, to take on what free trade has done to this nation. But other issues might keep them from doing that, and MSM is doing a great job into making the man some sort of racist demon, which he of course is not. But it is all they got, to keep the status quo in place for our elites. Trump is not a GOPher, for he is anti open borders free trade. And he is not a democrat, for he is anti open borders free trade. He is instead like our presidents up to Reagan, who would have never sent our jobs to slave labor, to benefit the rich elites and bankers. And we either never knew someone like this, or we forgot what our pre Reagan presidents were like, going all the way back to Washington. Well, I am old enough to remember those other presidents. And I think I have a handle on what is going on in this election cycle. Frankly, after watching the treason of the bushes and Clintons, I thought I would not live to see the day when americans finally woke up to what was actually going on. But I lived long enough to see it.

 

It's fitting that I too support Brexit, but I feel as though there are those who are misunderstanding the political movements taking place and that's because we use such obscure terms like "free trade" without understanding what it means on a more realistic scale.

The world has become open with technology, airplanes, buses, cars, etc. If we refer to an "international world" as open borders, these borders are generally open(sans North Korea's anyway) through transportation and passports. Think about how long tourism has been a thing in our human world. So no one rejects the value of differing cultures and being able to travel to different places.

So, what is being rejected? What's being rejected is the economic consequences that come from merging economies, and those values intermingling and therefore rejecting at times what used to be the main value of a country. In a so-called Globalist world, only those with access to the global markets(as a Wall street broker for example) will be able to see the "benefits" of a mostly lobsided economy.

For all those who can't travel(or to such an extent as they do), they're stuck in the local economies of towns, cities and provinces. This is why in the UK for example, London was a Remainer. As far as The City was concerned, life was good. But life wasn't good for all those trapped in local economies, especially with a weakened EURO. Even though the Pound on its own as a currency may struggle initially, the balance of power will be stabilized in England and I actually expect a robust economy.

As an economist, I can say the Globalist Society has failed on multiple fronts. While yes, people were afforded cheaper goods, they were hamstrung by the lack of jobs. It's much like a real estate person who puts too much emphasis on the home, but doesn't realize the home needs to be furnished. What good is a home without furniture? What good is cheaper goods, without the money to buy even cheap goods?

And then not to mention if those goods were to be reduced in quality. So between the TRUE quality of living, the lesser wages income and then the restrictions on social programs BASED on said income, it all combines to be some kind of sick joke. Pushed down to the garbage heaps, then literally restricted from rising from the heaps.

I need not explain about the foreign attacks and everything else that has happened. It is without exception that Globalism has failed worse than Communism in world history.

That doesn't mean Isolationism per say. It means we need to be in the middle, instead of radically one way or the other. We can have travel, by promoting the use of our passports. But it might be a good idea that if there are nations antagonistic to us(and vice versa) to keep those people away from us(and again vice-versa). Islam and the West are on a crash course, for no reason whatsoever than to satisfy those who want to claim "global world, diversity!" A fool's errand indeed.

And at the same time, through our allies, we can reach out to more and more people who would be willing to live within our rules. Basically, if I had it my way: All agreeable people in one corner, all disagreeables in another corner.

That's the only way this can work. You can't force people who don't like each other, together. You can't have multiple cultures. You have to have one overruling culture, one strong standard to believe in.

 

The two parties have realigned to exploit the most important issue of our time: which will prevail? The system of sovereign nation states we currently have, UN R2P notwithstanding; or regional/global governments and/or a global Federal system.

I have absolutely no faith whatsoever that we will make the right decision.

 

For most of that time, this concept was a small minority only recently has it been amplified because of the relative peace in the west at least for its civilians...but I suspect it will soon be buried like other failed ideologies. Either my its native populations (If we are lucky) or by outside forces in that case no more Bacon.

 

Expanding on this just a bit. You and I are Human Beings. We're individual beings as a component of a much larger world. Ideally, our private existence(our homes, our life partners, etc) coexists perfectly with the larger world(which allows these smaller components) in a balanced format. I'd argue this was the ideal existence for us. The only adjustment we had to make, was to respect each other's private world.

That private world would be exposed by the wider open world, and Globalism makes it even more open. Let's also speak to irony that the Left in particular on one hand wants this globalist world, but shrieks at the very sight of something opposing them which is the very definition of a global world! As long as the Left engages in these tactics of safe spaces, isolating protests, etc, then the world's revolt is going to continue and will become destructive to its own ends.

What we need to do, is to balance between the private world and public world. This used to be done through a mutual consensus on what the public world would be. But the public world is now being shaped by social policy on the Left, and on the Right religious objections(at worst), and at the least those Moderately might support or oppose changes depending on their individual whims.

The result of this tug-of-war over the Public World is perhaps the greatest thorn of Globalism. It can only be resolved honestly by getting rid of the two extremes, the religious right and the social-reformist Left, leaving the middle to be able to govern over the Public World.

 

Not the way I see it. Both parties will continue to be free trading globalists, for sanders may have opened the door to the dems moving back to what they used to be, the party of the working and middle class, which means anti free trade globalism, but it will not happen under Clinton if she wins. It took 40 years to change our economy to benefit the elite donors, bankers, MNCs and their owners, and both the Clintons and the bush family worked hard to change our economy. And the democratic party will not change under Clinton. Only sanders could have began that change, but he would have got very little change, unless he had enough voters behind him to force it.

The GOP is not gonna turn their back on the elites either, and while trump might fight open borders free trade globalism, he would be fighting both parties and the very powerful people both parties represent. But at least with trump, americans have someone to group behind to start the needed change and reversal of this economy that is not devised to create jobs that pay enough to live on. We have to start somewhere, to take on both parties who have sold the working and middle class out.

When I read about the tremendous resistance to TPP by the voters, on both sides, and which both parties ignored when congress was in the process of moving TPP forward, I knew then that America was finally waking up to the treason. And I also figured it would finally be a big issue in the upcoming presidential campaign, which it is. It gave us two candidates, against open borders free trade, sanders and trump. The taboo was finally broken, and free trade could finally be questioned and voted against whereas in the past the voters were told to forget about it, to get the education for our new economy, which was a helluva cruel joke.

This election with sanders and trump was about one primary thing. The open borders free trading globalist economy that was creating a growing suffering. MSM refused to acknowledge that, and have worked hard to make it about other things, nationalism, isolationism, racism, instead of actually covering why we got sanders and trump.

So, Clinton had to lie and move towards the concerns of the American people who were waking up, which pain and suffering tends to do. But have no doubt, she is an open borders free trading globalists, on behalf of those who provided the money for her to get elected. IF congress does not pass TPP in the lame duck session, and if she wins, she will sign it. This is cut and dried. And to hell with the people she lied to. There are trillions of dollars here over time at stake for the ruling elites. And the Clintons and the bushes are responsible for what has happened to America. As well as the congress.

IF people think the chaos we are seeing today with the voters, is not centered around economic suffering, you just have not paid attention, and got distracted by the less important issues. MSM and the establishment are trying to fight it off by calling suffering americans a basket of deplorable americans, with the anti open borders free trading trump and his supporters being isolationists, Nazi nationalists, racists, and so on. If sanders would have won, you would have had two candidates and voters who were anti open borders free trade Brexit in America. . So the hope of the establishment now lies with Clinton, which is why you see GOPhers supporting her. Which means, either her supporters are open border free trading globalists, or they are too stupid to understand what is going on. I imagine there are some of both in her camp.

 

I can't agree fully with any party. Socially I'm fairly centrist. Economically I'm more Right/Libertarian. What are you when you support abortion, CERTAIN religions, and the 2nd amendment, but want some major clamping down on corporations having too much control? Can't even call the Left favorable of the 1st amendment any more since they are far more vocal about SHUTTING down speech they don't agree with than supporting it. College campuses are all you need to know about how supportive of free speech the Left is. They're in FULL support of censorship of ANYONE who doesn't agree with them. Google the examples.

 

It was just common sense that globalism, the so called free trade would fail. Perot tried to tell americans this way back. 'That giant sucking sound" he referred to many times.

Globalism is just another scheme to minimize labor costs, which could not be done in America, and so other nations with a load of dirt poor people had to be used. And then, those goods could be shipped back here, the largest consumer market of any nation, to be sold. To get access to cents on the dollar labor, to exploit the poor elsewhere for their labor, to max out profits of the elites, free trade deals were created.

We went from the idea of paying our workers enough to buy what they were making, to not doing that, by offshoring jobs. And then the corporations could be a parasite on America, pulling out the money, while contributing nothing to anyone but the owners and stockholders. We saw a change in economic philosophy to come in with Reagan, which then restructured our economic model. To benefit the elites. This is what actually took place, if you want to get down to brass tacks. And, of course it would devastate the American working and middle class. Perot knew this, but apparently the voters were not smart enough to know it. Or they didn't care.

But here is the deal. If you structure an economy to where it no longer provides enough living wage jobs for your population, and send more of the income pie to the top, you will create social unrest and problems. And those problems will not only be social, but economic problems and even fiscal problems with the national debt. And all of these things have transpired. Common sense would tell anyone this was inevitable. Free lunches do not exist. And so the cost of the lunch, the cost of maxing out the wealth of the elites, is the destruction of American society, which comes with its own new problems. The cost is political chaos, which we are seeing now. All of this was predictable, if one only looks at history. And yet, the greed for more profits for the elites, creates dangerous amnesia.

I knew where globalization would lead, long ago. I saw it as just the newest scheme to create income disparity in favor of the elites. So, I voted for Perot. For he laid it out in very simple terms, what would happen. It seems that only Perot voters had enough sense to understand basic truths. The rest of America didn't have the sense to poor (*)(*)(*)(*) out of their boots. And look where it took us.

 

Indeed... It was a small minority who's thoughts and writings were preserved even while the world around them was invaded, destroyed and changed.
Until the renaissance and enlightenment these ideas were suppressed by your kind yet they were what we deemed worth preserving.

That should tell you something.

 

Should tell me that your kind is like the cockroach, capable of surviving but not something you want in your house. Yes you "enlightened" have your day in the sun, just don't get used to it.