If the shutdown lasts two more weeks, the cost to the economy will exceed price of Trump's wall

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by MrTLegal, Jan 11, 2019.

  1. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2017
    Messages:
    8,087
    Likes Received:
    5,197
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    And vice versa
     
  2. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2017
    Messages:
    19,677
    Likes Received:
    12,499
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It has no meaning if you refuse to accept any meaning. But let's ignore the distribution of the harm for a moment and let me ask you, why does the notion that most of the harm from the shutdown is concerned in citizens who reside in the DC area, why is that comforting to you?
     
  3. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2010
    Messages:
    32,529
    Likes Received:
    5,175
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No. The Dems are not doing what is in the best interests of the United States; they're only doing what's in their best interests.

    Wanna discuss sanctuary cities with me? Who's interests are best served by the concept?
     
    Ddyad likes this.
  4. Hadrian's Hammer

    Hadrian's Hammer Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2018
    Messages:
    518
    Likes Received:
    272
    Trophy Points:
    63
    There is always context. It relevant for critical thinking. The GOP controlled the house and senate for almost two years, why did they not pass Trump's $6B whan they had control? Because neither Trump nor the GOP congress really intended to ever do a new wall, so now their demands are pure partizan distraction politics to vilify the house democrats and setup an false flag issue again.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
    AZ. likes this.
  5. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2010
    Messages:
    32,529
    Likes Received:
    5,175
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You want some context, sure - Hillary lost, Trump won. Dems are not happy about it and doing all they can to delegitimize Trump's presidency and deny him anything and everything that can be viewed as a success of his administration.

    In a nutshell... :D
     
  6. Hadrian's Hammer

    Hadrian's Hammer Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2018
    Messages:
    518
    Likes Received:
    272
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Why not address the rest of my post first with the point being that the GOP congress had two years to pass this $6B when they were in control but did not feel it was necessary then or ever but now they want to use it as a distract divisive issue once again against the house dems? Thanks! :)
     
    AZ. likes this.
  7. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2017
    Messages:
    8,087
    Likes Received:
    5,197
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No.. 2 different things, and I'm generally opposed to that concept, so it would be a boring discussion..

    Thanks for the offer though..
     
  8. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    17,761
    Likes Received:
    3,653
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Mine, yours, Law enforcemnt's


    From Politifact:

    Albany Mayor Kathy M. Sheehan said in a national television interview that it’s not a crime for immigrants to live in the U.S. without documentation.

    Sheehan, a Democrat, was defending her city’s status as a so-called "sanctuary city" to Fox News host Tucker Carlson. The city's law enforcement officials do not report undocumented immigrants to federal authorities unless they commit a serious crime.

    "Simply being in this country without documentation is not a crime," Sheehan said. "The U.S. Supreme Court has said that."

    Carlson was left baffled.

    "You just said that being here illegally is not illegal? I’m not aware of that Supreme Court decision," Carlson said. "How is that true?"

    Sheehan cited a court ruling.

    "In Arizona v. the United States, the Supreme Court said simply being here undocumented is not a crime," she said. "There are civil violations and then there are criminal violations."

    So, who’s right? Sheehan or Carlson?

    What’s Sheehan talking about?

    The Supreme Court case Sheehan cited involved a 2010 challenge to an Arizona immigration law from the Obama administration.

    The law required that immigrants carry documents proving their status in Arizona. Police were also instructed to stop and seek documents from anyone they suspected of being undocumented. Those without documents faced a state criminal charge.

    The Obama administration contended Arizona could not create a state level criminal charge for the violation because it’s already regulated by Congress.

    The Supreme Court agreed with the Obama administration and struck down that section of the Arizona law, among other parts.

    Civil or criminal

    Experts supported Sheehan’s claim by pointing out how the U.S. legal system works.

    People who break the law in the U.S. have committed either a criminal or civil violation depending on how the law defines it and how prosecutors choose to proceed.

    Being in the U.S. without documentation is considered a civil matter, said Nancy Morawetz, professor of clinical law at New York University School of Law.

    "Being present in the U.S., that status, is not a crime," Morawetz said.

    That doesn’t mean undocumented immigrants can live in the U.S. without consequence, said Rick Su, a professor at the University at Buffalo School of Law. Federal authorities can deport them.

    A criminal violation comes with a punishment, like time in prison. Civil cases come with penalties instead. Deportation is considered a penalty under federal law, not a punishment.

    "Congress can decide what they want to make a crime and what they want to make a civil violation," Su said. "What they’ve decided is that immigration violations by themselves are civil violations."

    The Supreme Court confirmed that decision in Arizona v. United States.

    "What the Supreme Court said in Arizona v. U.S. is that generally being unlawfully present in the U.S. is not a crime, and that’s definitely true," Su said. "What the court did, is say Congress had made these civil violations and Arizona is trying to make them criminal violations."

    Why a civil matter?

    It’s easier to deport undocumented immigrants through civil proceedings, Su said.

    In deportation proceedings, immigrants face a special immigrant judge. The government does not have to provide a public attorney to immigrants who cannot afford one in these cases.

    The burden is then entirely on the immigrant to show they are in the country lawfully. They are also not entitled to any kind of due process.

    There are some immigration laws that can land an immigrant in criminal court. Entering the U.S. illegally is a crime, for example, but staying after a temporary visa has expired is a civil violation. As much as two-thirds of undocumented immigrants in the U.S. entered legally with a visa, according to the Center for Migration Studies.

    Our ruling

    Sheehan said "simply being in this country without documentation is not a crime."

    It may be semantics, but Sheehan is right. Living in the U.S. without documentation is a civil violation, not a crime.

    PolitiFact Florida rated a similar claim Mostly True earlier this year. As its fact check noted, however, those in the U.S. without documentation may have committed a crime by entering the country illegally.

    Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies, a group that generally opposes loosening immigration laws, told PolitiFact Florida that "it's easy for such individuals to run into separate criminal problems even beyond their method of entry, such as filling out an employment eligibility form to get a job when they aren’t eligible to work."

    But their illegal presence is not a crime.

    Sheehan's statement is accurate but needs clarification or additional information. We rate it Mostly True.

    Share The Facts

    Kathy Sheehan
    Albany Mayor
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    "Simply being in this country without documentation is not a crime"
    Thursday, November 16, 2017

    Please note that the MAIN reason it is still not even a Crime is because that would make it HARDER to deport people. You certainly dont want to do that, do you ?
     
  9. Libby

    Libby Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,335
    Likes Received:
    5,576
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Sounds like all the more reason to just go ahead and give Trump the $5.7 for the wall.

    Democrats are going to have a hard time trying to justify losing $6+ billion to avoid paying $5.7 billion.
     
    Ddyad likes this.
  10. FivepointFive

    FivepointFive Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,353
    Likes Received:
    293
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    I just read a graph that confirmed the OP

    Shutdown currently has cost 3.8 Billion.. Expected to reach 7.2 Billion in two weeks

    We are weak stupid and dumb like Trump.. Our idiotic Commander in Chief

    Someone needs to put a pitchfork next to Schumer in the conjoined politician Pelosi/Schumer (look like parents mad at their kid staying out until 4 AM) picture,, Looks like classic American Gothic to me
    I say don't give in.. We have to break the idiot of his bad habits.. Spend 30 Billion to prove it.. I don't care
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  11. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2017
    Messages:
    8,087
    Likes Received:
    5,197
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Lol.. he tweets at 4am... is that the same thing??
     
  12. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2018
    Messages:
    3,554
    Likes Received:
    1,312
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Clearly it’s not about the money to the left...it’s about Trump. They are still bitter the American people rejected them in 2016
     
    Libby likes this.
  13. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    6,634
    Likes Received:
    4,685
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The re-opening of the government is directly in the hands of Nancy and Chucky who previously voted FRO this request by the president.
     
  14. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2010
    Messages:
    32,529
    Likes Received:
    5,175
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes I do. I want to make it harder to deport Illegal Aliens while also make it harder for them to get here illegally in the first place.

    Otherwise, what do we have? Easy to get in —-> not a crime, no worries about being caught —-> easy to deport, so what —-> easy to get back in again. Rinse, repeat.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  15. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2017
    Messages:
    19,677
    Likes Received:
    12,499
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Republicans previously voted FOR the funding bill that McConnell now refuses to even bring up for a vote.

    But I know why you want to blame the Democrats for the shutdown.

    You are smarter than Trump.
     
  16. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2017
    Messages:
    19,677
    Likes Received:
    12,499
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This argument is akin to telling the family that they should have gone ahead and paid the kidnappers if they really wanted to see their family members.

    But I know why you want to blame the Democrats for the shutdown.

    You are smarter than trump.
     
  17. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    6,634
    Likes Received:
    4,685
    Trophy Points:
    113
    As you well know, there were never enough votes in the Senate to get it passed. I would much rather President Trump declare the border a national emergency and give himself power that would have unhinged lefties sputtering and stammering about for months on end.
     
    Ddyad likes this.
  18. Libby

    Libby Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,335
    Likes Received:
    5,576
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Blame games are for children. I don't really care who "started the shutdown". If the Democrats could get over their petty "I hate Trump" tantrum and put America and Americans first, we'd have funding for border security AND the government could reopen.

    The Democrats have absolutely no way to try to justify blocking "the wall" if the shutdown is going to cost more than the amount Trump was asking for in the first place. Surely you can see that, partisan blinders and all. This just highlights the pettiness of Pelosi and Schumer. Talk about cutting off their noses to spite their faces.
     
    Ddyad likes this.
  19. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2017
    Messages:
    8,087
    Likes Received:
    5,197
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    How do you know?? They did 3 weeks ago... I bet it would be close to a 50/50 vote today, but Mitchy and Donnie are afraid to find out...
     
  20. TRFjr

    TRFjr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2013
    Messages:
    14,157
    Likes Received:
    5,513
    Trophy Points:
    113
    because the majority of DC government workers are liberals and half of those are a waste of tax payer money
     

Share This Page