Is abortion evil?

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by Blasphemer, Jun 8, 2012.

  1. Blasphemer

    Blasphemer Well-Known Member

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    Is abortion evil?

    In order to answer this question, we must first define what is "good" and what is "evil".

    What is it that makes some actions good, and other actions evil? What is absent in morally neutral actions (if such actions even exist)?
     
  2. SpaceCricket79

    SpaceCricket79 New Member Past Donor

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    Abortion is about materially rewarding oneself at the expense of innocent human life, so it is evil.
     
  3. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

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    LOL Tell me, why is "materially rewarding oneself at the expense of innocent human life" evil? Give me the ethical justification behind such a claim.
     
  4. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

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    Abortion is totally fine. Evil is really a subjective and thus meaningless word.
     
  5. SpaceCricket79

    SpaceCricket79 New Member Past Donor

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    You might as well argue that rape and child molestation aren't evil then, since they reward the rapist at the expense of someone innocent.
     
  6. Blasphemer

    Blasphemer Well-Known Member

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    I beg to differ. Only materially rewarding oneself at the expense of innocent sentient human person is evil. Materially rewarding oneself at the expense of innocent unsentient human life (with no mind) is not evil. Its morally neutral. So abortion is morally neutral at worst.
     
  7. SpaceCricket79

    SpaceCricket79 New Member Past Donor

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    Fetuses have functioning brains and can feel pain after the 1st Trimester - they are sentient.
     
  8. Blasphemer

    Blasphemer Well-Known Member

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    Because they cause harm to sentient persons. Abortion does not. Its pretty different.
     
  9. Blasphemer

    Blasphemer Well-Known Member

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    Incorrect.
    Brain waves in the cerebral cortex appear after 20 weeks. Without them, no mind can be present.
    Thalamocortical connections, required for any outside stimulus (such as pain) to reach the brain appear even later.

    Its a pretty common misconception that brain waves that indicate sentience appear after 6 weeks, but this refers only to brain activity in lower brain. Sentience is a product of the higher brain (cerebral cortex), and brain waves there appear no sooner than 20 weeks:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beginning_of_human_personhood#Biological_markers
     
  10. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

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    Oh I get it. Well no, since by that logic every self interested human interaction is evil because it entails someone utilizing someone else at "their expense".

    OR If we dont take this stupid and idiotic position you describe, which is neither logical nor practical, and instead say that what matters is the recognition of people's interests we can say not only is abortion perfectly fine but that rape and child molestation are entirely immoral and unacceptable.
     
  11. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

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    Correct. And only several weeks after birth does a child exhibit any sense of self-awareness and comprehension of its existence as an independent entity.
     
  12. Blasphemer

    Blasphemer Well-Known Member

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    I am not in favor of such statements. We have no way to test it conslusively. All of our self-awareness tests are pretty poor (as its ultimately a subjective qualia). For example the mirror test, while it can prove self-awareness, it cannot disprove it - if the baby is self-aware, but does not recognise how the mirror works, its a false negative. Its possible to be self-aware without reacting to any outside stimuli.

    Better to stick with what we can prove with certainty - no brain activity in the cerebral cortex, no mind.
     
  13. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

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    Yes but the mind continues to grow and develop outside the womb. But I agree better safe than sorry - so abortion before birth and nothing after.
     
  14. SpaceCricket79

    SpaceCricket79 New Member Past Donor

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    It's clear that Megadeth fan is a pseudo-intellectual who just enjoys the thought of babies being killed. Probably just because he knows it pisses people off who have a conscience.
     
  15. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

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    ROFL, yeah you found me out. :rolleyes:

    Well no, pissing you off is something you do by getting worked up about it. But what's funnier is the fact you can never refute me! You dont even attempt to do so. That's the really funny thing about it.
     

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