Is it fair for men to be afraid of mentoring women?

I agree. Did I post something that makes you think otherwise?

 

I didn't ask for scientific evidence. Do you have ANY evidence of what you claim?

 

this is true to an extent too, the process seems to be overcharged and hope they plead guilty to a lesser crime, thus no need to prove anything

 

Prisons are for-profit businesses. There is no incentive to "innocence until proven guilty". There's a ton of incentive in "guilty unless you can prove your innocence" and sometimes that even boils down to how competent and interested one's lawyer is.

 

I think I misread your post , I think men are the most risk of false accusations, also when it comes to race, it's becoming the same

there are issues as you described too, minorities are the most likely to be discriminated against

but in our attempt to fix that, it also creates the risk of false accusations too

catch 22

personally, if I was management, I would never want to be alone with any employee

 

They are when the accusations are proved to be false.
Women are presumed guilty (of lying) each and every time.

Non-white people of any gender are always presumed guilty (check out the thread in which Ashli Babbit has been elevated to sainthood.

Cops can shoot all the black and brown people they want and that's "justifiable" but a white person committed the EXACT same crime (disobeying an officer (and that's not even fully comparable because there have been black and brown people killed WHILE obeying a LEO's directive) is unacceptable.

I would bet everything I have (except my kids) that they would be calling for impeachment AND imprisonment if Obama did even half the things that worthless POS, Anti-American con man-child did in office.

I don't really care if racists and sexists hold those beliefs (they are allowed to). I just hate how they lie about it constantly. If you think you're right, own it.

 

That's the only sure-fire way to never be accused of wrongdoing in the workplace.

It's not just a problem in the workplace either. I've seen churches, community groups, school boards, child abuse advocacy groups and other mostly stable groups splinter over this same issue many times.

 

you can't prove false a he said\she said is the problem, even if it's false

white people are often considered guilty by default if the complaint come from a black person as well - remember the duke boys, they got lucky that the truth came out

I think whites, blacks, men, women all have discriminations, just in different areas and sadly all need to be careful

 

In accusations of sexual misconduct, the woman is ALWAYS assumed to be lying. This is why it takes countless women to come forward. Unlike any other crime (outside sexual) the victim doesn't have to prove their innocence or that they did not *invite* the perpetrator into a position to cause them harm.

That is an exception to the default "rule". White people are *always* considered to be telling the truth if the accusations are against a non-white person.

As a police officer, I personally witnessed this countless times.

White people involved in traffic accidents would call their white friends to pretend they were in the driver's vehicle and witnesses the accident.
White people involved in divorce cases (when their spouse is non-whites) are almost always given the benefit of the doubt despite evidence of criminal and civil violations made by the white spouse.
White people involved in neighborly disputes are almost always allowed to get away with housing violations if their neighbors are non-white.

People that argue against the idea that racism does not exist are typically on the receiving end of the privilege that comes with that form of discrimination so it's in their best interests to deny it and malign the people that speak out against it.

An example of this (if you want to explore it)...

Look at the threads about Rodney King.

When a non-white person is involved in a shooting death, there are countless defenders looking at their history to justify and rationalize the shooting officer's actions. Their deaths are views as "acceptable" because they "caused it".

Look at the threads about Ashli Babbitt.

When a white person is involved in a shooting death, there are countless rationalizations about their actions that lead the shooting officer to take such drastic measures. Ashli Babbitt has a long history of defying police officers. She has a social media history of all kinds of inappropriate and combative positions against those in authority. However, all that is white-washed because she is a veteran, white, female and middle-class. Those allowances are NEVER taken into consideration when the victim is non-white.

The issue isn't about being careful. Yes, that protects one from false allegations (but not always).

The foundation of this problem is bigotry. When we hold ourselves (as US citizens) we claim to uphold the values on which this country was founded. That is simply "all men (implied women (but not at that time) are EQUAL". That's not what exists in real life (as mentioned above).

I posted a thread several weeks ago about a 6 year old at the border who literally lost the ability to speak because she was gang-raped on her journey to the border. That thread got no traction. The reason for that is outright discrimination. Her "value" is deemed to be inferior because of her country of origin.

As a police officer, I personally witnessed a nurse denying a black woman's statement that she was raped. The nurse said "Why would anybody rape a black woman?" Obviously, the implication was either "black women are promiscuous" or "nobody wants sex from a black woman."

As a police officer, I personally had a paramedic friend who was fired from his job because he was willing to say in his report that he personally witnessed his co-workers "slow walking" minorities to the hospital for the express purpose of letting them die.

As a police officer, I was witness to countless beatings, illegal threats by my co-workers, and false arrests against black people the year that Martin Luther King, Jr.'s birthday became a national holiday.

I'll stop there. I've seen more than anybody should ever have to experience in one lifetime. But, with that comes responsibility. I have PTSD so I don't get the luxury of forgetting what I've witnessed and what I've experienced. And, instead of allowing that to jade me or corrupt me or turn me into some kind of addict, I purpose to use my experiences to advocate for those who can't advocate for themselves and help educate people about these issues.

Until we address OUR problems, as a nation, nothing will change. And the people that have created and continued this problem not only don't want it to but need it to because it gives them privileges denied to everyone else. The journey won't be easy. But, it's a journey I'm willing to take because I want a better future for my children. I want a better future for all our children. So, until I take my last breath, this is the fight I will stand strong against.

 

Believe all women! - Joe Biden

Unless you are Joe Biden! - Joe Biden

 

There's still jobs that few women want to do. Just get one of those.

 

Very well stated. You are the rare exception to have witnessed and proclaim that this is what is going on with our civil institutions.

But I need to ask, how do you explain this to whites who are in denial of the streak of racism that is still alive in our Republic? It used to be that the simple act of calling someone on it when they let slip a bigotted statement, but that no longer works. Some folks are proud to be white bigots these days and will go out of their way to let you know it.

 

Can you expound on your comment, please. I understand there is a deficit of woman in specific occupations but I'd like to hear your personal observations about this within your profession.

 

Oh I'm sure there are some examples, but at the same time this wreaks of fearmongering, and "false allegations" aren't limited to women or against men, or issues of "sexual contact" for that matter. Some people may just have some degree of social anxiety around the opposite sex which doesn't always translate into realistic thinking.

For that matter, some "high-profile" fellows like Cosby, Weinstein, and Epstein (not even getting to Trump) seemed to have done quite well for a long time before their accusations resulted in some type of action taken against them - and there was quite a bit of "presumption of guilt" towards the women who accused them (e.x. it was very popular to suggest that they were liars who were just after the men in question for their wealth).

So it seems you beg the question quite a bit.

 

In the 12 years that I've been working in the sewer and the probably hundred or so municipalities we've worked with in that time, the only woman I've met that ever actually went into the sewer was my stepdaughter, who went in once before giving her two week notice. Granted, she didn't seem to mind the sewer but quit because of how often we have to stay out of town which doesn't mesh with her life... But still, there's already few women that work in the 'dirty' side of sanitation and even fewer that will actually go 'down the hole'. I say fewer because there has to be some somewhere... but I havn't met any yet.

Side note- I would guess that slightly over half of the civil engineers and managers I've met in sanitation are women, and generally I find them to be more pleasant to work with/for than their male counterparts when they sometimes creep out from their offices to see what we're doing. The women also seem to be about 200% easier to get a hold of via phone or email when there's a problem

Sider note- women seem to be dominating the construction traffic control industry, for whatever reason.

 

I don't believe he actually chanted that silly meme, and of course no one marginally literate in the law, male or female, would take that illiterate nonsense seriously to begin with - sans your fear of "kangaroo courts".

I'm not sure what the point there is - for that matter there are "male deficits" in some occupations such as nursing.

I don't think going well out of one's way to "avoid women entirely" is the best attitude to begin with, even if they have social anxiety that doesn't account for their actual "beliefs" on the matter, I still think that learning to handle it well would be better than intentional avoidance.

Maybe in day-to-day life, men and women often interact more with people of the same sex than the opposite sex (unless it's someone they're in a relationship with), but again, this topic seems like it's predicated on promoting intentional avoidance.

There are plenty of occupations (e.x. service occupations, ministry, public speaking, law enforcement etc) where interacting with members of both the same and opposite sex is a part of the job and most people don't seem to have suffered some personal crisis over it.

 

by some, by others the man is always assumed to be guilty, sometimes even after being proved innocent

"That is an exception to the default "rule". White people are *always* considered to be telling the truth if the accusations are against a non-white person."

not true, many times the black person is believed and the white person disbelieved... times have changed

yes, it does sometimes happen, not always... white people are often the victims too

"Until we address OUR problems, as a nation, nothing will change."

I agree, but that means acknowledging there is bad white people, black people, women, men out there and many will lie, cheat, steal, abuse, equally (there are also a lot of "victim" wannabes out there, even some cops, they will scream victim at the first chance they get)

I also have witnessed things I can't forget, I won't talk about them here as I prefer to stay anonymous, but your not alone in that, I am doing the same as you, both of what we say has value and has truth to it

 

What you're describing isn't the justice system.
Gotta be charged with something to be part of the justice system

 

the best way to explain it to whites is not to act like it's only happening to blacks, don't go on the defensive when people say blacks are racist too, learn to accept that both are true, and that we should be against all racists, regardless of their race - same as we should all be against bad cops, bad men, bad women - all of these kinds of people affect all races, all genders

 

and that is more of a power thing, rich powerful people get the best justice....

 

I agree with all of that, the problem is that we now seem to be living in The Upside Down. I'm talking about those that get a kick out of being offensive. Think about what kind of mentality it took to take a dump inside the Capitol on Jan 6th in the middle of that maelstrom. That is some pyscho babble sh!t.

 

Perhaps. But no charge isn't part of justice system.
Money and power has it's privileges.

 

actually it can be, sometimes the justice systems fears going after these people

 

agree, or burn down a police station... there is a lot of hate in this country right now.... and I think much of that is stoked by our foreign enemies pretending to be Americans and inciting that anger, anonymous social media has a dark side too

social media is creating the same effects cults had in the past it seems with some

groups of people hate other groups of people, see them as the enemy and that is not a good thing and it's happening more and more

 

Its very complicated times at the workplace. The standards and expectations have shifted ( properly so, I think), but not only is there a lack of understanding that they have shifted on an entire generation of men, some of those Some men are often being judged with a pretty harsh intent, for behavior 20 years ago on a standard from 5 years ago.

Being a boor, a crass vulgar and slightly predatory male looking for ways to use power, and entitlement to pressure or harass women into sex, or sexual behavior has always been outrageous inexcusable conduct. That is not what I am talking about. Its behavior that literally was not universally seen as sexually offensive or suggestive across all workplaces 20 or thirty years ago.

We have decided that how the woman perceives and feels about specific behavior and statements, is definitive in judging whether there is a problem needing to be addressed. That is good. But that does not mean that the intent behind the behavior and statements is to be deemed irrelevant. Its always very relevant in deciding how it should be addressed.

No a personal note, I have spent my entire adult life working in kitchens with some very tight workspaces, and as often as not, completely alone with the women I work with. Never so glad to be openly gay, as I am on the job! Now occasionally there will be men, or worse some 17 year old boys. Now that gets a little worrisome when we are both trying to get by each other.