Is Orignal Sin Universal?

Jesus was God.

Why would God need to sacrifice Himself to Himself to convince Himself to change the Rules He Himself put into place knowing full well beforehand that He would have to change the Rules He Himself put into place and require Himself to sacrifice Himself to Himself to convince Himself to change the Rules that He Himself put into place in the first place?

Do you see why no one accepts your argument?

 

People of all backgrounds are percicuted and killed.

Christians are not special.

So the circumstances trump God? Well, I suppose Omnipotence went out the window.

The decisions we make? I was unaware that a zygote was capable of making decisions... oh, wait, its not. It does not decide anything and is not responsible for the circumstances of which it is born into. To suggest that an Omnibelevolent being is going to send the innocent into horrendous situations is deplorable. You worship a very evil deity it seems.

 

So by your stated criteria if people don't suffer those hardships here in America they aren't Christians. Therefore, because people aren't routinely killed for their religious beliefs here they can't be true Christians. However, people are routinely killed for their Christian beliefs in other countries. Those must be the real Christians.

 

Whatever, dude.

I'm a Biblical Theologian.

I don't expect you to understand.

You're just trying to cause problems.

The BIBLE explains everything.

Read the BIBLE.

You'll be amazed the answers you'll find.

 

GOD being Omnipotent(All Powerful), Omniscient(All Knowing), and Omnipresent(Everywhere at once), GOD's ways and thoughts are higher than our ways and thoughts.

We don't and won't understand why some things are the way that they are.

We have to TRUST that GOD is GOD, and that HE knows what HE is doing. GOD obviously knows what's going on.

HIS purposes, plans, will, who can thwart?

Some people that suffer are suffering for a greater good in GOD's eyes, because it will bring about something HE only sees, to accomplish HIS will for HIS glory.

And, Yes, by the way, I know JESUS is GOD. I have said that from the beginning. I think I read in a different thread in one of your posts that you didn't think JESUS was GOD.

So, do you believe JESUS is GOD, or not?

Kudos if you believe JESUS CHRIST is indeed GOD.

 

Now you're just assuming and presuming, twisting my words around, and putting words in my mouth in order to cause problems.

People who are not killed does not mean they're not Christians. That's a rediculous statement.

It's very true that people of all backgrounds and faiths suffer and die, and many do not. I'm pretty sure I already addressed this in another post in this thread or similar thread. Happy reading. You need to read my posts before responding. You'll have the answers before posting, saving you time and me reading and having to reply to your rediculous responses.

I was stating the majority throughout history, the one being persecuted the most were the Christians and Jews.

The Christian Church as a whole has suffered from the very founding and beginning of her.

I have already answered the Ops original question.

Carry on, or troll on with your insulting comments, intentional misinterpretation, and misunderstanding. Which ever you decide.

 

I was replying to Mayerling's post about GOD being ALL about forgiveness.

And I replied, "That's exactly what Christianity is ALL about."

If you would read my posts, you would be posting my quotes in correct context, and not misinterpreting them.

Maybe, if you read my posts before responding, you wouldn't be replying at all because in them are answers and truths.

 

Why do atheists and those that reject the BIBLE and Christianity go against themselves when they KNOW full well in their hearts there is a higher, ALL POWERFUL BEING that created everything?

They will do and say anything to try to discredit the BIBLE and Christianity.

Tell me, what truth do you hold on to?

What is the basis of your so called truth?

Do you believe there is an afterlife?

Why are we here?

Where did we come from?

Where are we going?

 

I find a self-contradictary mess.

I see you [predictably] avoided the questions, why?

 

Jesus said that people would be persecuted and killed for following him. That's in the Bible. It was certainly true in early history.

I pointed out that since that doesn't happen here in America that it must mean that Americans aren't true Christians. However, it does happen in other parts of the world on a weekly basis.

It was Jesus that set the criteria. You just repeated it. The comment was on what he said.

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) = All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

1 Corinthians 15

The Risen Christ, Faith’s Reality
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.

9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11 Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

The Risen Christ, Our Hope
12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise. 16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! 18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.

The Last Enemy Destroyed
20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.”[a] But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

Effects of Denying the Resurrection
29 Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead? 30 And why do we stand in jeopardy every hour? 31 I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. 32 If, in the manner of men, I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantage is it to me? If the dead do not rise, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!”

33 Do not be deceived: “Evil company corrupts good habits.” 34 Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.

A Glorious Body
35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?” 36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. 37 And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain—perhaps wheat or some other grain. 38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.

39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh[c] of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds.

40 There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.”[d] The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord[e] from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear[f] the image of the heavenly Man.

Our Final Victory
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”[g]

55 “O Death, where is your sting?[h]
O Hades, where is your victory?”

56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.

And I emphasize these verses from this Chapter:

3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.

The Risen Christ, Our Hope
12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise. 16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! 18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.

19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.

The BIBLE has the answers to your questions if you will read it.

 

That's exactly what I have stated in other posts.

You need to read my posts.

 

Just because some Christians aren't persecuted in America does NOT mean they're NOT Christians.

Persecution in America toward Christians does happen.

It's more subtle, here.

There have been cases where some were killed for their FAITH.

For example, the young teenage girl shot at Columbine. That's one example out of many.

How about some preachers behind the pulpit getting into trouble for preaching against sin, for supposed hate crimes.

How about people not getting a job or being promoted simply because they're Christians?

Is this not persecution?

You're rediculous.

You'll never get it or understand.

Obviously, I have known that JESUS CHRIST sets the standards and criteria of what a TRUE CHRISTIAN.

It's in my other posts.

Evidently, you have a lot of reading and catching up to do.

If you actually read my posts, you wouldn't be firing back with this non-sense.

I have explained everything from the BIBLE.

 

And,

By the way,

I have already answered the Ops original question.

The discussion is over.

Troll on, if you like.

 

Originally Posted by Wolverine
Jesus was God.

Why would God need to sacrifice Himself to Himself to convince Himself to change the Rules He Himself put into place knowing full well beforehand that He would have to change the Rules He Himself put into place and require Himself to sacrifice Himself to Himself to convince Himself to change the Rules that He Himself put into place in the first place?

Do you see why no one accepts your argument?(End quote)

Because the above is utter non-sense, and you know it.

You are a very knowledgeable and intelligent person, Wolverine. You know what the BIBLE says. You know the accounts and why GOD did the things HE did, and why JESUS CHRIST had to be sent as the perfect Sacrifice, as the Spotless Lamb of GOD.

You're just trying to cause problems.

Why are you trying to trap me?

I already posted the answers in other posts. Find them and read them.

By the way, I already answered your original question for this thread.

Discussion is over.

 

Sooooooo... atheists believe in God but reject God?

Laughable.

 

Was Jesus God?

Yes?

Alright, you just tripped and fell on your face.

 

You haven't answered anything, wolf boy.

I was asking you, do you believe JESUS CHRIST is GOD?

Because I remember reading in other posts you said HE was NOT GOD.

You're quite a shameful flip flopper, mr. wolf boy.

Me personally, I KNOW JESUS CHRIST is GOD, and LORD, and SAVIOR.

Not so fun when you're picked out and attacked, is it mr. wolf boy.

 

So Jesus is God?

So God sacrificed Himself to Himself?

Your position is laughable.

 

Hmm...

Laughable indeed because you just said that I said something that I didn't say at all.

Did I state that?

Putting words in my mouth again, are you mr. wolf boy?

Purposely and intentionally misinterpreting what I post and twisting words around, are you, mr. wolf boy?

Interesting that I have been able to answer your questions, but you haven't answered mine.

Do you believe JESUS CHRIST is GOD?

Are you an agnostic?

Are you an atheist?

Where did we come from?

How did we get here?

Where are we going?

Is there an afterlife?

What supposed and proposed truth do you hold on to?

 

Nevermind the post where I said earlier that you were a very knowledgeable and intelligent person. You know the BIBLE and what GOD did and why HE did it.

GOD did NOT sacrifice HIMSELF to HIMSELF. GOD sacrificed HIMSELF for us, that we may be with HIM one day in Heaven, if we would repent and believe.

I already answered your very first original question in your opening statement at the beginning of your thread.

So, we're through, here, mr. wolf boy.

The answers to your questions are in the BIBLE and throughout this thread.

Happy reading.

 

Read, slowly, the first two lines of your post.

Perhaps you should proof read to ensure you understand what your own posts say?

No.

Mostly. I believe God is the collective conscienceness of the universe, noninterventionalist, noncreative, nontheistic. Much like pantheism. We are Gods. We are God/the universe experiencing itself in our four dimensional universe of which we reside.

Read the signiture.

From star dust.

Our parents were in a dark room and then had sex. Ask them, I imagine sex will come up.

Around the sun on a planet we are killing.

Possibly. The discontinuation of conscienceness seems unimaginable.

Reality. A reality that does not require a silly contradictary mess to make sense of.

 

So God sacrificed Himself to Himself to convince Himself the change the Rules that He Himself put into place knowing fullwell He would have to sacrifice Himself to Himself?

That sounds so convincing that I will admit that I actually believe that bull(*)(*)(*)(*) and I deny it so I can be punished for all enternity. It appears you have figured me and all non-Christians out.

Congratulations.

 

Thank you for your answers. I mean that.

I'm sorry you believe the BIBLE to be a contradictory mess.

It really is NOT contradictory at all.

It is easy to misinterpret and misunderstand the BIBLE's meanings and intentions.

Thank you again for your answers.

I have a better sight of where you are coming from, now.

Many attack the BIBLE and Christianity for the simple reason of attacking it. They don't like it or believe it, so they're in full attack mode.

That's what I thought you were doing.

My apologies.

And I hope you eventually change your mind about the BIBLE and Christianity.

 

I don't like it nor do I believe it.

There are far better philosophies.... such as Buddhism.