Israel: US Asks Iran to Not Sink an American Carrier, “Just Kill Some Troops Instead”

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Sobo, Jan 5, 2020.

  1. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The terms "serious threat" and "diplomat" are not exactly synonymous. I haven't personally seen you refer to this guy as a serious threat. I have only seen you call him a diplomat, but I will take your word that you see him as a serious threat.

    Then why call him a diplomat? Would you call Saddam Hussein or Ghadaffi a diplomat? I dont think that term legitimately applies in such cases, and at least in those examples they are actual heads of state which Soleimani clearly was not.

    I think that it is abundantly clear that we are employing a strategy of economically isolating Iran in order to limit their ability to create further havoc throughout the region, and perhaps in the long term embolden their people to rise up and revolt aginst their oppressive government. It is also abundantly clear that Iran has been testing its boundaries as far as how hard it can push back without truly invoking a massive response from us. While it is true that we really do not want an all out war with Iran mainly because of the expense and additional loss of life, it is also true that Iran REALLY does not want an all out war with us, because their very survival LITERALLY depends upon it. The consequences for us are not nearly as dire. With that undeniably being the case, it is important that we are keenly aware of our advantage in that calculus.

    Killing Soleimani was bold. Iran had been getting increasingly bolder, all the way up to the point of over running our embassy, directly killing an American citizen, and reportedly planning over running several embassies in the region. Undoubtedly, their calculus was that we would likely precision bomb a munitions factory or something that is equally benign and typical of our response to provocation. Trump clearly escalated things by killing Soleimani, and lets be honest....they blinked. He truly has them wondering whether or not he was willing to go to an all out war, and they made damned sure to do nothing to invoke that response. In truth, he had me wondering the same thing. That uncertainty is a good thing. You can rest assured that going forward, the bounds of the line that they will be willing to cross just got a LOT smaller as a direct result of Trumps actions.

    To me, that IS a strategy. He leveraged our overwhelming military advantage and has likely tightened the bounds of their aggression towards us. The fact that he appears unpredictable is actually a good thing. They were prepared for us to do our predictable munitions factory bombing, but NOT prepared for us to take out their top general whom has killed so many Americans through rogue terrorist groups. This strategy worked when we bombed Ghaddafi's palace in Libya. He was completely neutered after we did that. One thing is for sure, Iran is going to think twice before their next provocation.

    Without a moments hesitation, I would have 100% supported Obama or any President if they had done the exact same thing. Iran needed to be reigned in a bit, and I believe that his actions/strategy accomplished that very objective.There is not one iota of partisanship in my support for this action.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2020
  2. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    1. I listed several terrorist acts, you've not challenged all of them.

    2. The issue of alleged terrorist acts committed by our leaders has nothing to do with whether Soleimani was a terrorist.

    3. Of the many terrorist leaders that we offed since 9/11, do you think any of them were actual terrorists and were we justified to kill them?
     
  3. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Again you avoid the question:

    If killing of Soleimani was appropriate for his acts of terrorism - then to be consistent - you must also support killing of numerous of our leaders for their acts of terrorism.
     
  4. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    You need to prove first that the United States is a state sponsor of terrorism and pick out an appropriate military leader who is responsible for carrying out such terrorism.
     
  5. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    He could be a diplomat AND a terrorist. They are not exclusive.

    If we wanted to isolate Iran economically we would be working with the EU, Russia, and perhaps others as well. Trump explicitly killed that.

    "Bold" doesn't imply strategy. And, "blink" doesn't mean anything, either.

    Our serious objective has to do with Iranian nuclear weapons. No killing individual terrorists.

    You have not identified ANYTHING that is strategic or a plan. Now, they are down one man. And, they have stronger relations with Iraq, to the point of the Iraqi parliament voting us out of their country - instead of the population in Iraq demonstrating against Iran.

    That's not a strategy. It might even be a win for Iran, depending somewhat on who else they have.
     
  6. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Already proven to you numerous times - We led a global effort to arm, support and supply a radical Islamist proxy army in Syria - led by Al Qaeda and ISIS. The director of the CIA would be one of the responsible parties.

    This action led to the death of over 500,000, war crimes, genocide, crimes against humanity.
     
  7. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    -Once you are a terrorist, you have lost the ability to be called diplomat in my book. Yasser Arafat for example was not a diplomat. There is no reason to argue this until the cows come home because you can feel he is a diplomat, and I can feel that he is not. I do not believe for one second that he was in baghdad on a diplomatic mission. The notion in my opinion is laughable. I dont believe that most Americans buy the notion that he was on a diplomatic mission.

    -The ill conceived Iran agreement is what ceased the economic isolation from the EU etc. Trump has restarted the process. Iran's economy is doing horribly. Whatever he is doing is hitting them where it hurts, and their actions reveal that reality. The Iranian people are disgusted with their government. The newly imposed sanctions are a significant part of that unrest. This is a good thing.

    -I didnt say that bold implied strategy. I called his action bold. His strategy is economic isolation. His response to their aggression is what was bold. "Blink" in the context in which I used it, means metaphorically that they were having a stare down, and Iran blinked. That means they lost. They turned tail and ran. When danger reared its ugly head, brave sir Iran turned and fled.

    -Iranian nuclear weapons is indeed a long term concern. This speaks to the need to ratchet up the pressure. Killing Soleimani was a great first step.

    -I have identified a strategy. You just dont like that strategy. Of course economic isolationism is a strategy.

    - Honestly......I dont have any desire to go back and forth on all of these new issues that you have introduced. Lets agree to move on and go our separate ways for now.
     
  8. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    You've never proven a single thing. You've simply made conspiracy theory assertions, Alex Jones style.

    The idea that there would be no Syrian Civil War, and the resulting deaths, without the United States is absurd. It's pretty obvious that you're not a serious person and are in the wrong section. There is already a conspiracy theory section where you would be more comfortable.
     
  9. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Enemies are some of the most important people to talk to. The idea that us hating them gives us the right to kill them is just plain crazy. The primary reason for diplomatic immunity is to allow for communication.
    We had an agreement signed by multiple countries and Iran. If Iran didn't follow that agreement, we had leverage with all those countries to address any transgressions as a group of nations - a far more powerful position than going it alone.

    Instead, Trump reneged, demonsrating the worthlessness of deals made with the US. Plus, that blocked other nations from sanctions oriented to forcing Iran's compliance.

    These issues were very real during the Obama years, too.

    I seriously liked the deal we negotiated with Iran, signed by us and several other nations even including Russia, because it got a group of nations working together with a common goal of stopping Iran's nuclear progress.

    Whatever Iran did, we had a whole group that would be committed to taking offense if Iran broke the deal. At that point, we as a group would be in position to take real next steps with the backing of too many countries to allow Iran to just write it off as an "evil America" thing, and with the combined economic force to make a serious impact.

    Instead, Trump proved that the US won't stand behind its word, and in so doing made it essentially impossible for Europe to try to proceed with a subset of signees.

    That is serious impact.

    Then, we pull off this assassination that further isolates our allies, turns Iraq more against us (at a time they were protesting against Iran) and detracts from the central issue of Iran's nuclear program.

    That is NOT a strategy - it is a double dose of blunder.
     
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  10. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What a joke you are - you have been given the proof - many times.

    15 Bipartisan in Congress - The Defense Intelligence agency - numerous news organization both domestic and abroad - even VP Biden.

    And you claim these are all involved in some grand conspiracy to frame the CIA - Pentagon - and Obama Admin - for arming radical extremist Islamist groups in Syria.

    Talk about feigning denial akin to denying that water is wet - like a good puppet.
     
  11. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As I said, sincerely, I am not interested in continuing this conversation at this time.
     
  12. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is that because denial and thought avoidance is your friend ?
     
  13. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Both Saddam Hussein and Ghadaffi are full on "diplomat's" - by definition. What planet did you say you came from ? - and what is the definition there ?
     
  14. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nope. Just means that I am bored with this thread, and ready to move on.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2020
  15. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    See above. I sincerely hope that you do not continue humping my leg.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2020
  16. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think you are mistaking your leg for your backside .. and the precious fairy tale delusion that is being penetrated.
     
  17. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Its clearly me leg. You are hurting my calf.

    GO ON.......GIT!
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2020
  18. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You seem to enjoy it ;)
     
  19. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    OMG did I miss ww3? Are all our base now belong to Iran?

    Stupid Trump can't even start a war with Iran right
     
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  20. Truly Enlightened

    Truly Enlightened Active Member

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    Is it just a conspiracy theory,

    that the Syrian government did NOT give the US, UK, and France the right to ignore its sovereignty, and launch missile strikes against the Syrian Government, during their own Revolution? What other country fought with our colonies during the American Revolution? Or, in OUR Civil War?

    that the US and the UK ARE listed as State Sponsors of Terrorism around the world? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-sponsored_terrorism

    that the US illegally committed an act of war, by not notifying NATO or any of its Allies, before committing the murder of a foreign citizen, on foreign soil? Of course, Iran's worst enemies were notified(SA and Israel) before the strike. What was the evidence supporting an imminent, and immediate danger to American troops? NONE. What if all other countries started killing people they thought were a threat to their national security? Is this the world you want to live in? Or, does any of that matter, as long as might is right?

    that the US is directly, and indirectly(sanctions, blockades, banking assets, etc.), responsible for the death of over 500,000(including civilian) in Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iraq, since 911? https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/2018/Human Costs, Nov 8 2018 CoW.pdf How many lives would be saved today, had we NOT gotten involved? If fact, name one country that is better off, because of American intervention? I didn't think so.

    that the only countries we affect regime-change, covertly and militarily, are only those countries that decide to nationalize their natural resources? Or, those countries that threaten to NOT trade oil and gas in American dollars? Kim explains it the best. https://www.marketslant.com/article/petrodollar-under-attack

    that the American government sent its military, to invade Hawaii, to illegally occupy and overthrow its government? They did. No theory.

    that Trump abandoned the nuclear deal with Iran, that was supported by Russia, China, France, Germany, and other countries of the EU? But of course Trump is smarter than all the other world leaders. Right? Or, does he just want to continue blindly undoing everything Obama has done?

    that Pompeo, Trump, and his inner circle of war-mongering lunatics, have decided that the illegal occupation of Palestinian land by Israel, is NO longer illegal. Bugger international law, or the sovereignty of countries? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/18/us-israeli-settlements-no-longer-considered-illegal-palestinian-land-mike-Pompeo .

    that Trump signed 3 Executive orders to ban the AFGE Union in VA, as an illegal attempt to silence employees and discourage them from reporting any mismanagement, or other abuses that might harm veterans’ care?

    that Trump wants to unban prayer in public schools, which was never banned in the first place? As long as your prayers do not interfere with normal school business, discriminate against non-prayers, or is funded by the school, you can pray to whomever or whatever you like.

    that there is a "stop funding terrorist" bill in the house. If we weren't funding terrorist, why would this bill even exist?

    that Trump did not say he would build a wall, and Mexica would pay for it?

    Exactly which of these obvious conspiracy theories, is without merit or truth? Never mind, you can't. It is YOU who is not serious, and continue to peddle in disinformation, abject denial, and avoid the truth at all cost. To accept that my America is becoming the laughing stock of the world, is very hard for any true American to stomach. But listening to the mindless gibberish, the blind sentinel loyalty, and the pathetic mind-numbing logic(in the face of facts), makes me even more mindful of what the true underbelly of America really looks like.

    If any of you war-mongering chicken hawks, needing your bloodlust fix, think that America has the most powerful military in the world, then remember, that it took 23 other nations to win WWII. If Russia and China alone, would decide to protect their interests in Iran, from American imperialism(like we did in Viet Nam), then America would soon realize that they are far from being invincible. No military is. Does any sane person think, that if either of these nuclear countries are losing, that they would NOT release their nukes? GET OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST, AND SAVE LIVES AND MONEY. Why are we there? What is the end game? Who are getting richer, and who are suffering? Get out, and start saving, and serving the people here at home. Remember, AMERICA FIRST!!! Right?
     
  21. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    You need to prove first that the United States is a state sponsor of terrorism and pick out an appropriate military leader who is responsible for carrying out such terrorism. Also, since you pin the blame on all 1/2 million casualties of the Syrian Civil War, you need to bring proof that we're the cause of it, and the primary prosecutors against...who exactly?
     
  22. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    The Alex Jones comment was not aimed at you, but it does seem appropriate.
     
  23. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL....well, you rubbing up on my bunion does feel good. Thanks! :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
  24. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What part of 15 Bipartisan in Congress - The Defense Intelligence agency - numerous news organization both domestic and abroad - even VP Biden. - did you not understand from the last post.

    If want to believe that congress is lying - with respect to the "Stop Arming Terrorist Act" - in some grand conspiracy to make up a story which implicates the Pentagon, CIA, Obama - in arming radical Islamist's in Syria - including Al Qaeda/Al Nusra - and ISIS - don't let me stop you.
    https://gabbard.house.gov/news/StopArmingTerrorists

    It is your pretending that you have not seen this - and proof of the other sources mentioned - such as the Defense Intelligence Agency - VP-Biden - and hundreds of domestic and foreign news sources .. all in on this grand conspiracy to fool gullible folks such as yourself.
     
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  25. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    :oldman::oldman::oldman:

    Keep your pornographic foot fetish fantasies to yourself - there are children present :)
     
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