Now I have a few moment to respond to your post. Jews and Christians are considered by Islam the people of the book. But this tenderness vanishes when the Jew or Christian are batter of in their daily living and this complimentary utterance is forgotten and diabolical meaning is supplanted. Peaceful coexistence is illusory and fatuous expression, there was never a civil coexistence not even in Andalous (Spain)... Jews were treated as second class citizen and were supposed to wear a badge and pay Jizyah tax Jews from Arab countries were expelled in 1947/8, then 1954, 1967 etc, Jews were expelled from England, until Oliver Cromwell readmitted them back etc. Lebanese Christians left during the time of Arafat not to be decimated as they did to their National Christians , they are less than 25% of Lebanese Population. I played backgammon with a Lebanese the other day and he told me Christians have a hard time adjusting. Yes!!! You can find all the excuses in the world but the Qur'an is the one that sets the tone Well it is fallacious if one is exposed to freedom, hope for a free life and all their future crumbels like a castle of cards... and mind you these were not Arabs but an American Administration whim. At least we have something in common... when my family came here after the inquisition some of them remained in Thessaloniki (Greece) and all of them went through the chimney You have everything topsy turvy friend a) nearly half the population of Israel are Jews from the Arab countries, last Rosh Hashana we nearly reached 9 Million in Israel... As far as the Naqba is concerned read the statistics I wrote Ronstar etc So you do not, but I do with all due respect to your contributions. We do not live in a world of fantasies, a panacea that is not there... If the Muslims do not reform their religion we will have no alternative but to separate for the next hundred years.
Can you think of anywhere where a minority that is "better off" is not resented? It is not a complimentary utterance by any stretch of the imagination. I do take your point about diabolical religious interpretation to justify any and all crimes. And people used to be hunter gatherers. Peaceful co-existence is neither illusory nor fatuous. All non-muslims were treated as second class citizens. And I know you are familiar with the intent of Jizyah. [/quote] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya From the point of view of the Muslim rulers, jizya was a material proof of the non-Muslims' acceptance of subjection to the state and its laws. In return, non-Muslim subjects are permitted to practice their faith, to enjoy a measure of communal autonomy, to be entitled to the Muslim state's protection from outside aggression, and to be exempted from military service and from the zakat tax levied upon Muslim citizens.[3][4[/quote] Aren't arab Israeli citizens exempt from military service (druze excepted) and doesn't that preclude them from certain rights and government social services? Not entirely comparable by any means, but of similar ilk. Yes, and Jews were expelled by Christian Spain and OMG! they were invited to the Ottoman empire where they thrived while making major contributions for centuries. My point is that it was the events of the war of independence that triggered tit for tat. 1954 and 1967 hmmmmmm, wonder what happened in those years. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/le.html Muslim 54% (27% Sunni, 27% Shia), Christian 40.5% (includes 21% Maronite Catholic, 8% Greek Orthodox, 5% Greek Catholic, 6.5% other Christian), Druze 5.6%, very small numbers of Jews, Baha'is, Buddhists, Hindus, and Mormons. Come on. you know as well as I that any scripture can be interpreted in a variety of ways, particularly when taken out of context. Tell me, do hassidics even consider reform jews, jews? that makes no sense. There is NOTHING to link rejection of a boatload of refugees to a two state solution. But I will agree 100% that that odious episode in history is a yet another indication of the need for a jewish homeland where no jew will be turned away. an all too common something in common. I see you categorize all the sabras from those forced immigrations as "jews from arab countries". It doesn't appear as tho the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics agrees with you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel#Ethnic_and_religious_groups According to Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics, in 2008, of Israel's 7.3 million people, 75.6 percent were Jews of any background.[2] Among them, 70.3 percent were Sabras (Israeli-born), mostly second- or third-generation Israelis, and the rest are olim (Jewish immigrants to Israel)—20.5 percent from Europe and the Americas, and 9.2 percent from Asia and Africa, including the Arab countries sorry I should have said "I do not claim there ISN'T..." IOW I agree that there is a segment who's wet dream is death to jews. I readily agree that Islam needs to go thru a reformation/enlightenment process as have the Jews and Christians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya From the point of view of the Muslim rulers, jizya was a material proof of the non-Muslims' acceptance of subjection to the state and its laws. In return, non-Muslim subjects are permitted to practice their faith, to enjoy a measure of communal autonomy, to be entitled to the Muslim state's protection from outside aggression, and to be exempted from military service and from the zakat tax levied upon Muslim citizens.[3][4[/quote] Aren't arab Israeli citizens exempt from military service (druze excepted) and doesn't that preclude them from certain rights and government social services? Not entirely comparable by any means, but of similar ilk. Yes, and Jews were expelled by Christian Spain and OMG! they were invited to the Ottoman empire where they thrived while making major contributions for centuries. My point is that it was the events of the war of independence that triggered tit for tat. 1954 and 1967 hmmmmmm, wonder what happened in those years. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/le.html Muslim 54% (27% Sunni, 27% Shia), Christian 40.5% (includes 21% Maronite Catholic, 8% Greek Orthodox, 5% Greek Catholic, 6.5% other Christian), Druze 5.6%, very small numbers of Jews, Baha'is, Buddhists, Hindus, and Mormons. Come on. you know as well as I that any scripture can be interpreted in a variety of ways, particularly when taken out of context. Tell me, do hassidics even consider reform jews, jews? that makes no sense. There is NOTHING to link rejection of a boatload of refugees to a two state solution. But I will agree 100% that that odious episode in history is a yet another indication of the need for a jewish homeland where no jew will be turned away. an all too common something in common. I see you categorize all the sabras from those forced immigrations as "jews from arab countries". It doesn't appear as tho the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics agrees with you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel#Ethnic_and_religious_groups According to Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics, in 2008, of Israel's 7.3 million people, 75.6 percent were Jews of any background.[2] Among them, 70.3 percent were Sabras (Israeli-born), mostly second- or third-generation Israelis, and the rest are olim (Jewish immigrants to Israel)—20.5 percent from Europe and the Americas, and 9.2 percent from Asia and Africa, including the Arab countries sorry I should have said "I do not claim there ISN'T..." IOW I agree that there is a segment who's wet dream is death to jews. I readily agree that Islam needs to go thru a reformation/enlightenment process as have the Jews and Christians.[/QUOTE] Thanks for the input. HB
And how many Israeli towns were sieged, depopulated , destroyed during these wars do you know ? how many Jewish civilians fled ? what would have happend to them if the Arabs won ? You dont deal with the bigger picture.
Why did the evil Zionist Jews allow so many Arabs to stay in Israel borders and not forced all villages to leave ? what's that about ? Your theory makes no sense.
The REAL THING is that the figures this fella has projected are unsubstantiated and also wrong for at the time UNRWA statistics showed 400,000 Arab refugees... on the other hand there were a little less than ONE Million Jewish Refugees from Arab Countries.
Nothing about Israel is ever as simple and some would believe it to be : ( Apart from Plan Dalet ). Read and learn :Revealed from archive: Israel's secret plan to resettle Arab refugees Plans drawn up during the 1950s and 60s had one overriding goal: to preserve the demographic status quo by resettling the 1948 Arab refugees far away from the country. At the conclusion of the first meeting between Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion and President Kennedy, held in New York in the autumn of 1961, there was no longer any doubt on the Israeli side that the White House was working on a new initiative concerning the Arab refugees called the three-pronged approach. Ben-Gurion did not like ‏(to put it mildly‏ the idea presented to him by the president, which called for some of the refugees to be settled in Arab states, others overseas and some to return to Israel. However, in deference to the president, the Israeli leader did not reject the idea out of hand. == Since the end of the fighting during the War of Independence in 1948, the question of what would become of the 650,000 to 700,000 refugees who had abandoned their homes and property within Israels borders had become a millstone around the countrys neck. Some of the refugees had fled, others had been encouraged to leave, some had been expelled. According to one estimate, the property left behind by the refugees included more than four million dunams of land ‏(one million acres‏, 73,000 rooms, and 8,000 stores and offices. Since the end of the fighting during the War of Independence in 1948, the question of what would become of the 650,000 to 700,000 refugees who had abandoned their homes and property within Israels borders had become a millstone around the countrys neck. Some of the refugees had fled, others had been encouraged to leave, some had been expelled. According to one estimate, the property left behind by the refugees included more than four million dunams of land ‏(one million acres‏, 73,000 rooms, and 8,000 stores and offices. -- In December 1948, the United Nations General Assembly adopted Resolution 194 ‏(III‏, which stipulates, in Article 11, that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date. In the wake of this, Israel came under heavy pressure to repatriate some of the refugees. The refugee issue was raised every year during the deliberations of the General Assembly and in international conferences. Notable in this regard was the Lausanne Conference in May 1949, which was convened to advance a solution to the Middle East conflict. During the conference, Israel came under great pressure from Washington, with President Harry Truman sending a strongly worded message in which he maintained that Israels refusal to accept refugees put the peace in danger and ignored UN resolutions =========== Interior Minister Yosef Burg, who liked to sum up things with pithy quips, said, The return of Arabs is not only an atomic bomb, it is an anatomical bomb. Striking a somewhat businesslike note, Finance Minister Levi Eshkol asked what constituted a decisive Jewish majority: 51, 61 or 71 percent? He said that the last number certainly constituted a decisive majority. Ben-Gurion said that if there would be 600,000 Arabs in Israel, they would be the majority within two generations. ‏(At the time, Israels population stood at 3.1 million, including 252,000 Arabs.‏ No formal decisions were made. Encouraging emigration As the idea that Israel, under international pressure, might have to allow some refugees to return began to sink in, Jerusalem started to look for demographic solutions to balance out this prospect. Starting with the premise that the birthrate among the refugees and among the Arabs who had remained in Israel was higher than among the Jews, the question the policymakers asked was how it would be possible to reduce the number of the countrys Arab population. In the midst of the War of Independence, when more than 400,000 Arabs from then-nascent Israel had already become refugees, a transfer committee − i.e., one dealing with population transfer − was established with a mandate from the government to recommend policy on the subject of the refugees. Yosef Weitz, a Jewish National Fund official who had been the driving force behind the committees establishment, was appointed its chairman. One of its recommendations was that the Arabs abandonment of their homes should be considered an irrevocable fait accompli and that Israel should support their resettlement elsewhere. The committee also recommended that Arabs who had remained in the country should be encouraged to emigrate and that the state should buy the land of Arabs who were willing to leave. In addition, Arab villages should be destroyed and Arabs should be prevented from working the land, including a ban on harvesting field crops and olive picking − this in the wake of attempts by refugees to cross back into Israel, to the villages and fields they had left behind. Secretly, the highest levels in Jerusalem realized there would be no option but to take back some of the refugees. With this in mind, Weitzs committee decreed that the number of Arabs in Israel should not exceed 15 percent of the total population. The recommendations, submitted in written form, were not adopted in a formal government resolution. However, they had the effect of reinforcing the governments view that Israel had to be assertive in its effort to preserve the demographic status quo. Ben-Gurion and his adviser on Arab affairs, Yehoshua Palmon, took part in some of the committees meetings, in which ways to encourage the countrys Arabs to leave were discussed. In June 1950 Israel Defense Forces GOC Southern Command Moshe Dayan said: The 170,000 Arabs who remain in the country should be treated as though their fate has not yet been sealed. I hope that, in the years ahead, another possibility might arise to implement a transfer of those Arabs from the Land of Israel. In the countrys first decade of existence, the leaders of the ruling Mapai party ‏(the precursor of Labor‏ and its coalition partner Ahdut Haavoda, together with the senior officers of the Military Government ‏(Israels Arab citizens were under military rule until 1966‏, believed that at least some local Arabs would draw the right conclusions from the outcome of the War of Independence, and consider emigrating of their own volition. In 1950, Palmon wrote to Foreign Minister Moshe Sharett that the majority of the propertied Arabs aspired to leave if they could also take their assets. The Christians among them would choose to move to Lebanon, he noted, while the Muslims would opt for Egypt. Palmon confirmed that he had examined possibilities of a property exchange between Arabs from Israel and Jews in Egypt and Lebanon. His conclusion was that an arrangement to that effect could be worked out. For his part, Defense Minister Pinhas Lavon referred to migration among the countrys Arabs in a talk he gave in November 1953. For the Jewish population, he said, This is a vital matter, even if we do not see emigration as a solution to the basic question. We have to remember that the natural growth rate among the Arabs is approximately 6,000 a year, and emigration could solve that issue. The largest and most comprehensive plan, involving the transfer of thousands of Christian Arabs from Galilee to Argentina and Brazil, was given the secret codename Operation Yohanan, named for Yohanan from Gush Halav ‏(John of Giscala‏, a leader of the Jewish revolt against the Romans in the first Jewish-Roman war. The plan was devised in the utmost secrecy in backroom meetings in the Prime Ministers Office and the Foreign Ministry, with Weitzs aid. Foreign Ministry documents from the early 1950s show that it was actually Sharett, known for his moderate views, who encouraged the plan, even though he was concerned about the Churchs response when it became apparent that a large portion of the leavers were Christians. In March 1952, Weitz forwarded to the Foreign Ministry a detailed report about the resettlement of Christian Arabs from Upper Galilee to Argentina and Brazil. The report pointed out that the Argentine authorities were abetting the migration of farmers to the country. He added that 35 families from the Galilee village of Jish ‏(Gush Halav‏ had evinced an interest in the plan. The overall proposal included the creation of a share-holding company to be held by non-Jews and for which the initial financing would come from Jewish National Fund capital in Argentina. Sharett added that, if necessary, the project could be presented as an initiative of Israels Arab community, similar to the migration of Maronite Christians from Lebanon, which was then underway. Should the operation be discovered, the foreign minister made it clear, any connection to the government must be vehemently denied. In November 1952, Sharett informed Weitz that the prime minister had authorized Operation Yohanan. He added that the details of the plan must be kept strictly confidential. In any event, the project was canceled at the beginning of 1953, apparently because the Argentine authorities balked. The Middle Eastern department in the Foreign Ministry dealt with the subject of resettling the refugees outside Israel from the day the department was created. Its mission was to find places where the refugees could be settled, raise funds and obtain international support for settling the refugees abroad. In the spring of 1950, the director of the Foreign Ministrys international institutions department, Yehezkel Gordon, suggested that Israel consider settling Arab refugees in Somalia and Libya, to take the place of the 17,000 to 18,000 Jews who had immigrated to Israel from Cyrenaica and Tripoli. The idea was particularly appealing because the Jews who left Libya had not been allowed to remove their property from the country. After Libya became independent, in January 1952, Moshe Sasson, from the Foreign Ministry, put forward a secret proposal to settle Arabs from Israel − from among both the refugees and those who had remained in the country − in Libya, with the property of the Libyan Jews to be restored to them within the framework of the exchange. In June 1955, Weitz traveled from Paris to Tunisia and Algeria in order to examine the possibility of settling Arabs from Israel and Arab refugees there, parallel to the immigration to Israel of Jews from those countries. source :http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/magazine/.premium-1.564422
Plenty of freedom for everyone in Israel until Muslims started blowing up randomly taking innocent civilians with them. Why don't you tell the whole story instead of just Hamas propaganda?
