It Gets Tougher And Tougher To Sell The Idea Of Global Warming…

So what.
"Global" weather... is the weather globally. So eyeballing at a local phenomena is not taking that global part serious one bit.

 

Taxcutter says:
Warm one place, cold the other. Very mixed signal.

If you did not call down the Warmer media when they said Katrina and Sandy were evidence of AGW, you are complicit in their lie, and have no say when somebody else uses other weather against AGW.

 

About the word "global."

American consumers and taxpayers are gonna get brutally hammered by all the "remedies" put forward for AGW. Much, much more so than anybody else. So conditions in the US are more important than those in place where everyone gets a free ride.

 

There is a huge difference between "Taking it Serious" and over-reacting outside the limits of scientific knowledge or morale reaction!

Global Climates change very slowly, and humans have only been using scientific measurements of the "Climate", rather than the local, temporal "Weather" for a few decades.

It will take Centuries of data collection, with far better standards and equipment than we have currently, to even begin to "Measure" the climate.

Yet many, if not most, "Progressives", want to take what amounts to a single, out-of-focus, myopic snap shot, and claim that the image is justification for their getting control of the lives of ALL people, and Trillions of Dollars.

In short, NO!

P.S. Even IF there was scientific justification for concern over the Human impact on the Climate, Human Kind would be foolish and suicidal to trust "Progessives" with control over the reaction plan.

Humanity would be far better served asking a combination of Religious Conservatives, and Agnostic Scientists to develop a response, and blocking any control or input from Radical Progressives completely!

The Left has demonstrated over and over and over again, at the cost of Millions of Innocent lives, that the Left cannot, must not, be trusted!

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How about you google "average temperature world" and look at the "mixed signal" of the pictures?

 

Taxcutter says:
That's exactly what happened with the Ozone Hole. A quick rush to "do something." After a quarter century of massive sacrifices by US consumers (about 8 trillion dollars to date) exactly nothing has happened. the size and concentration of the Ozone Hole are completely unchanged since US regs went into effect.

Huge sacrifices imposed on a portion of the world. No effect either way. Sounds like junk science.

AGW sounds exactly the same.

 

Taxcutter says;
As collected and fudged by government paid stooges? Not credible.

 

Actually people have been recording the climate for a long time already.
For instance the "greenhouse effect" is a term that has been around for more than 200 years.

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You're ranting up a conspiracy theory based on nothing.
I'm not impressed.

 

Taxcutter says:
We caught them once tampering wit the data. What is to say they won't try again?
Unless they tamper with the data, their computer models don't work.

 

If you knew anything real about Science, you would not be making such foolish statements.

Read my other posts on this thread where I go over just a few of the problems with your "Data".

No one disputes that "greenhouse effect" is real, and can even come from atmospheric gasses such as Water Vapor, CO2, or Methane.

That said, greenhouse effect also occurs in green houses, where glass plates allow the light in, but keep the heated air close.

The GreenHouse Effect also occurs in Cars, anyone who has melted a favorite CD collection knows that well.

While GreenHouse Effect occurs anytime a Car is sitting in the Sun with the Doors and Windows closed, the fact that the Gasoline tank has ruptured and has spread a pool of burning fuel under and around a given car, is far more likely to be responsible for the extreme and sudden heat inside that car!

Such is the scaling error you are making when it comes to GreenHouse Effects on the EARTH.

Its not the atmosphere, it is the SUN!

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Even if true... than to label all data collected independently by by 100's of governments being tampared with by some guilty by association argument.. is still a conspiracy theory. Guilty by association arguments and conspiracy theories don't work.

 

You call that science?
The greenhouse effect is not about glass plates of an actual greenhouse.
wikipedia:
The greenhouse effect is a process by which thermal radiation from a planetary surface is absorbed by atmospheric greenhouse gases, and is re-radiated in all directions.

 

Taqxcutter says;
Not a conspiracy theory. Simple human nature. Successful scientists are like all other successful people. They don't bite the hand that feeds them. Governments want evidence of AGW so they can impose taxes and regulations on the US consumer and taxpayer. Scientists who live on government grants comply.

 

The Corruption and False Narrative of the Radical Progressive "Greens" goes far deeper than just falsifying data, which I agree, they have done so in large amounts.

Lets look at some their claims and action plans, where they claim that the Earth, as a climate, will increase in temperature by 1/4 of one degree over the next decade. They project all sorts of catastrophic environmental impacts from that change. No doubt if it continued at that rate for centuries, it would be drastic.

So, the "Progressive Greens" state that they want to reduce the Standard of Living (SOL) of all Americans by 30% and be given 10 Trillion dollars over the next two years to combat the effect.

When you ask them what they plan to do with the money, and why the sacrifice of 30% SOL will impact that rate of change, they state that it will not be near enough to stop the temperate rise. The of the 1/4 of a degree of change expected, the planet will still continue to heat at around 75% of that rate...

So, you KNOW that if we grant them the 30% reduction in SOL, and the 10 Trillion Dollars this year, they'll only be back two years from now asking for 10X as much!

They know damn well that by their own models and "Data", what they are asking for won't make any significant difference, and that what would be enough to make a difference, by their assumed models of the cause, would be to kill off 99.999% of humanity!

This is NOT, and never was about saving the earth!

This is Green Fascism!

It is about a wacky religious belief being used to generate a mentality and attitude among a sub-set of American / World Society, that a small, elite, superior group has the right and justification for Genocide.

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Are you really trying to argue that the "Greenhouse Effect" as pertains to Atmospheric Heat retention is not based on the same principles that cause plant green houses, and cars, to retain heat?

Do you know anything about the solar spectrum, the wavelength energy distribution, Rayleigh scattering, and planetary albedo?

I worked for seven years at a government lab, designing, building, calibrating and fielding optical Pyrometers!

We would do a last minute check of our instrument, just outside the nuclear accelerators building, pointing the device at the SUN, to insure nothing was knocked out of alignment, every day, just before rolling it into the building to take fusion energy experiment data.

Not only do I know the science of making accurate temperature measurements, I have personally watched the fluctuation in the solar output!

One of the factors we had to take into account, in our measurements, was the angle at which we viewed the sun, and the distance through the atmosphere ( including the CO2 ) which the light / image of the sun traveled, before reaching our instrument.

I know the "Greenhouse Effect" at levels of details known only by a few thousand people on the entire planet.

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Here is just a few links to some of the more radical members of the Obama Administration and their ideas on "Saving the Planet":

http://zombietime.com/john_holdren/

http://www.examiner.com/article/sci...beliefs-about-america-capitalism-and-humanity

And he is far from the only Radical Green advocating such evil actions.

Not every Green is a wacko, but enough are to be dangerous.

Not every Nazi wanted the Holocaust.

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Here's another Green Radical from the Obama Administration, this one is deep into Marxism and Anti-White Racism.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/2730-radical-green-jobs-‘czar’-resigns-amid-furor

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...ys-the-lesbians-theyre-anti-immigrant-bigots/

This website has a audio and video clip with Van Jones own radical words which sound allot like the radical communist rhetoric you might expect from Fidel Castro.

http://wakeupblackamerica.blogspot.com/2009/09/meet-obamas-green-czar-van-jones.html

Valerie Jarret chimes in with her laurels for Van Jones.

The Radical Green agenda does not have the same kind of limits and boundaries found in other segments of American Political discourse.

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This websites hosts the 10/10 "No Pressure" campaign to cut carbon emissions.


The video which is shown on the website features several commercials which were made showing people who disagreed with the Leftie Green Agenda being brutally murdered for their daring to disagree.

[video=youtube;W1HBOvXZO-g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1HBOvXZO-g[/video]



This is a great example of the kind of Radical Religeous Extremism exhibited by many Greens.

The Left/Greens cannot, must not be trusted!

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Only if it there is no net difference in global temperature.

You've already illustrated that your sole reason for denying climate change is that you're afraid of larger government and increased burdens on taxpayers. Of course, you have nothing to say about real issues that unfairly burden tax payers (eg: http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...nt-waste-8-5-trillion-pentagon-142321339.html), you just want to in response to facts and logic.

 

Taxcutter says:
It's all just dead loss to the US taxpayer and consumer. Just like the Ozone Hole but at least an order of magnitude worse.

Trillions and trillions out and nothing to show for it.

 

Except for lining the pockets of cronies, elitist politicians, and academia selling this snake oil...at the expense, once again, of the middle class and lower.

 

Who is denying climate change? No one. Change is the only constant. What people are responding too is that political action is dependent on a hypothesis that is not proven and computer models that are failing as we post. People are protesting political action that will make it miserable for those that need it the least, the poor.

 

You have got to be kidding. Do you seriously believe that there are no climate change deniers?
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...-talkathon-on-climate-change-on-senate-floor/

http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

Even on this very thread, from the person I was actually responding to:

Whereas there have been a variety of predictions about details surrounding the effects on weather patterns, which geographic areas will be hardest hit in the short term, there is no significant debate that global warming is happening. There is also no significant debate on whether we contribute to it by producing pollutants and destroying natural resources that offset pollution.

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Except for the ability to actually continue living. Yeah, what a waste.

 

Deniers is just a label the true believers use for anyone that does not buy into catastrophic global warming. The true believers changed catastrophic global warming to climate change because they sounded so ridiculous and using climate change, something that naturally happens, makes them sound legitimate except that climate change is something that has been happening normally for billions of years.

 

Deniers is a loaded term first used to combat antisemitism from the likes of Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Because of the public, blatant denial of the historical event of the Holocaust by that extremist Islamic politician, the term has became a Buzz-word used when you want to discredit someone because they will not accept an obvious truth.

So those trying to push the AGW agenda stole and used the term, in hopes of painting their opposition with the stains borrowed from the emotional loading of extreme antisemitism.

In some circles, it actually worked for the AGW promoters for a while.

The problems is, very few people who are against AGW hold the position that the Global Climate is/was/should be Stagnant.

Most people who reject the AGW agenda, reject the Anthropomorphic cause, not the climate change.

And most of the scientific evidence so far collected confirms that the change has always been happening, and humans activity is a small portion on the driving forces creating it.

So, Ironically, the "Denier" label would actually more accurately applied to the promoters of the AGW theories, which I find personally very amusing.

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