It's time for BIG cuts in our military

Discussion in 'Security & Defenses' started by Accountable, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. Accountable

    Accountable New Member

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    Well then, let's help him out, because I think this is something that ought to be done no matter who gets in office.

    What is his exact plan to draw down troops?

    • Which countries? I would pull all permanent troops from any sovereign nation currently enjoying peace, with the exception of diplomat support, of course. That means Japan, Germany, UK, Italy, and any others I didn't think of.
    • What is the timeline? Each base would have to be case-by-case, but the bases I helped close took less than two years from the time we were given the order to draw down. I don't know how long planning took.
    Let's see the accounting.

    • What are the troops going to do when they are back in the US? Collect unemployment for 2 years and then get a job at Walmart? Most troops nowadays have marketable skills. GI's are a very desirable commodity because they know the value of teamwork, know how to follow orders, and have a better work ethic than average.

    But the way you state that Walmart remark, it seems without this information then you'd rather keep our military empire in place. Is that accurate? Since the Cold War ended, the military has been little more than a glorified work program. It's time to pull in our tentacles.
     
  2. IgnoranceisBliss

    IgnoranceisBliss New Member

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    What about the strategic importance of these bases? If we run away back home we won't be able to deploy anywhere in the world to protect our interests. It will end up costing us significantly more if and when an incident breaks out. Generals and diplomats could write books on just how important these forward deployed bases are. We don't put troops there as an "occupation" force as some crazies on this site suggest. They're there to support ongoing operations and to serve as strategic stepping stones. The majority of the these bases are tiny (in the neighborhood of a few hundred) and serve mostly as training advisors at the request of the host government.
     
  3. Accountable

    Accountable New Member

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    Strategic importance implies we have a strategy, which implies we have a conflict. A more important question: what about the sovereignty of those nations? Don't they deserve as much respect as we do? We would never tolerate another country building a military installation on our soil.

    I like the way you phrase that: "run away back home." Moving out of Ramstein Air Base in Germany or RAF Mildenhall in England is not running away.

    Are you aware that during Desert Storm we deployed B-52 bombers from Barksdale Air Force Base, Louisiana, that dropped their payload on target in Iraq and returned home without ever touching foreign soil? If and when an "incident" breaks out (love those euphemisms!) the people of those nations should be able to protect themselves. If not, we can be there in a matter of hours.

    As for expense, war should be expensive - prohibitively so. It should be difficult, inconvenient, and downright messy.

    These bases are not at war. I had such a great time at Kadena Air Base that I stretched my 18 month tour into just over 7 years, then returned for another 3-year tour 8 years later. Those nations can maintain those strategic stepping stones as efficiently as we can. We don't need to be there.
     
  4. IgnoranceisBliss

    IgnoranceisBliss New Member

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    No it doesn't. You don't wait around for the incident to breakout. You prepare for every contingency and put yourself in the best position so that when conflict does break out your ready.

    Many of these countries agreed and or want U.S. troops there. Yes, in many countries the population as a whole may not, but the population tends to be more symbolically driven rather than practically. Can you expect that 19 year old to understand strategic warfare?

    The B-52s are a terrible example. Dropping bombs is easy. How do you get the boots on the ground? It takes one hell of a lot of stuff and people to move an Armored or even Infantry division half way across the world.
     
  5. Accountable

    Accountable New Member

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    Doggone right dropping bombs is easy. We've forgotten the purpose of war and thus spend American lives too cheaply.
     
  6. Revere

    Revere New Member

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    The military 20% of the budget.

    Obama will triple the debt in 10 years and double it in five years while cutting the military.

    It's not the military.
     
  7. Accountable

    Accountable New Member

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    It doesn't matter if they want us there. Why are we there? What is the justification for keeping tens of thousands of American troops in England?
     
  8. Herodotus

    Herodotus New Member

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    Its time to greatly expand our intelligence programs...
     
  9. Accountable

    Accountable New Member

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    What's not the military?
    I'm not saying that we need to save money and so we need to cut something we really need. I'm saying our military is too large, too spread-out, and is being used as a tool of convenience rather than giving the spending of human life capital the serious consideration it deserves. I would be calling for the same cuts if we were in boom times and had a budget surplus.
     
  10. megatron

    megatron New Member

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    The military does waste huge amounts of money..i know because i was in the military...there is no incentive to not spend all the money your unit is given every year...in fact you are punished if you don't spend all the money...
     
  11. submarinepainter

    submarinepainter Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    our allies should maintain their own bases and provide support if they want our help,
     
  12. macljack

    macljack New Member

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    What if those countries are unable to? Canada, England, Germany are all advanced nations but are not capable of fighting on their own the potential threats which currently exist in the world. Why you may ask, simple, modern military forces are stupidly expensive and the United States is the only nation capable of building significant quantities of these weapons systems on a scale which can be effective in a large scale conflict. I also agree that the bombing example is a very very poor one, that only shows your limited understanding of military tactics & strategy. That being said you all seem to forget that the main purposes of these bases are not to "occupy" or "control" the region. The purpose is to provide logistical and communication support to any force which would arrive when needed. These bases therefore allow the United States to maintain a highly flexible response capability in all regions of the world. This is why these bases exist, the ones which have large troop numbers do so because of local conditions. Korea has large troop numbers because of China & N. Korea for example, Germany and Japan have them because, well if you can't figure that out then you have no business on this forum.
     
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  13. Accountable

    Accountable New Member

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    I disagree. IF the others don't have military sufficient to defend themselves, it's because they depend on the US to do the heavy lifting. They instead funnel their funds toward infrastructure & social programs.

    [​IMG] You haven't the first (*)(*)(*)(*)ing clue why, for if you did you would have stated it.
     
  14. Up On the Governor

    Up On the Governor New Member

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    I am curious for those who complain about the military's budget all of the time, do you ever complain about how companies like Bank of America do not pay taxes? Do you complain about the abuse of social programs? The money is there, but are you willing to find it?

    This is mostly directed at those who propose serious cuts. I agree with closing or scaling down some of the foreign bases, getting rid of redundancies, ect.
     
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  15. namvet

    namvet New Member

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    no it doesn't. ever hear of the rapid deployment force????
     
  16. AshenLady

    AshenLady New Member Past Donor

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    I know that there are loads of items that even Gates doesn't want, doesn't need, and there's better things, but because of pork barrel, and different states making 25 different parts in 25 different states, we get stuck with making things and spending money on junk.

    It's a shame what the pork barrel is doing to our economy.
     
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  17. namvet

    namvet New Member

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    I think the US should pull all our military and intell from the EU and UK. and a gradual but safe pull out from all foreign countries, worldwide
     
  18. toddwv

    toddwv Well-Known Member Donor

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    If you remove Social Security and Medicare spending from the general budget where it should not be, then "defense" budget easily top 40% of the budget. It's hard to keep track because "defense" spending is tossed down so many rabbit holes.
     
  19. AshenLady

    AshenLady New Member Past Donor

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    I agree, and I wish we didn't have our computers built in CHINA. OF all places for G-dssake. Who knows what the hell they are doing with those hard drives and what bugs and junk are on those computers.

    All our stuff that is to do with security should be made inside the US!
     
  20. Accountable

    Accountable New Member

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    Absolutely. :nod:
     

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