It's Time For Full UN Membership For Palestine

No, that is absolutely NOT why Palestinians are starving.

They are starving, because Israel will not allow them food.

Could you imagine the USA doing that in WWII Germany?

Do you really think that since Germans voted for Hitler we had the right to set up a system to starve their civilian population to death?

Somewhere, you lost your moral compass.

 

When the Hamas leadership steal the aid money and get rich and live expensive lives in other nations, that isn't causing Palestinians to starve? In what way? When the aid money doesn't support the welfare of the people, and just enriches the leaders, how does that not lead to the starvation of those folks? The Palestinians have ports. If Hamas stopped importing arms via their ports, perhaps Israel wouldn't block those shipments and perhaps folks wouldn't starve. Why are you supporting these criminal leaders of Hamas?

Running away to Germany didn't help your theory here. Worse, it makes your stance abundantly clear, If the US blockaded Nazi germany, likely you'd be making the same argument against it. And have. And since you don't seem to understand the history, or the facts from these conflicts, here you are, blathering along that Hamas don't have a responsibility to feed their own folks instead of building tunnels and buying weapons to continue on with their terrorism.

 

Perhaps. But I see no reason to believe so.

He didn't say he was.
Saying Hamas isn't taking the food (true or not) isn't a statement supporting Hamas.
And even if Hamas takes a lot of the money, that doesn't mean Israel isn't blocking a lot of aid from going in, such as food in trucks, etc.

 

I think you're purposefully missing the point then. Aid is flowing into Gaza. And when it does, it sure looks like Hamas is getting theirs first. Worse, Hamas was using aid shipments to import arms into Gaza. These are all facts. Explain again how then, knowing that they were doing something that would adversely affect their own citizens that the Hamas leadership aren't directly responsible for the behavior of Israel who are protecting themselves from these barbaric terrorists? If the heart of Hamas was in improving the lives of their citizens, why do they insist on continuing to engage in terror against the Israel? And why, for example, won't Egypt allow those supplies in? As Israel isn't their only border. This BS value signaling has to stop. The terrorists who lead the Palestinians have to be removed, and perhaps the lives of regular palestinians would greatly improve. But ignoring the crimes against the people of Israel isn't the answer.

 

That is simply a lie. It would be interesting to get your opinion on why Israel would do that. Oh, i remember. Genocide. If they wanted to kill Gazans wholesale why did they wait until Hamas started a war?

 

Far less than before, and a lot of it is being held up at the border by Israel. If that's enough to starve people, I am not certain, but it may be.

Possibly, but I don't see any evidence of that. All the footage I have seen is rather chaotic, and seems to be administered by the people running the trucks and not any local authority (Hamas or otherwise).

Possibly, but again I see little evidence of that. Some tools that may be used as weapons, yes. Guns, I doubt it any significant numbers. They have other ways of smuggling arms in, and know Israel is inspecting aid shipments closely. Most of what is being held up in line is food and other essentials.

If you want to play the game of blaming one party for the actions of another, that same game could be played in the other direction. If Israel didn't oppress Palestinians for decades, Hamas would likely not be in power.

I haven't seen anybody here claim that the heart of Hamas was in improving the lives of Palestinian citizens. But I'm sure some think Hamas has done so by calling world attention to their plight through their violence. This is common in such situations. Some desperate people do or support monstrous things. Acknowledging that fact isn't supporting such actions. That would be a very dishonest misrepresentation.

What Egypt does or doesn't do isn't an excuse for what Israel does to Palestinian civilians. But I can think of numerous possible answers to your question:

1. The same reasons Americans don't want south americans flooding through their borders. Egypt doesn't want to support them, doesn't want them competing for jobs, may imagine them to be desperate and thus more criminal (whether thats true or not), etc.
2. Israel exercises a significant amount of control over the Egypt/Gaza border through both its military and its diplomacy.

 

Uh yes. I don't recall sending any aid shipments or food to Nazi Germany during World War II. Instead we spent much of the war bombing the crap out of them. If a daycare was next door to the ball bearing factory, too bad. The stakes were that high.

It seems inconceivable to me that you don't realize that's part of warfare. Sherman didn't just burn down Atlanta (oh noes civilians were there!) he burnt any crops he found or confiscated them. He wanted to starve the South...the civilians not just the military.

If in World War II we had a way to cut off Germany from food supplies we would have done it and starved them into submission.

Your political opinions seem totally disconnected from any reality whatsoever.

 

The reason Gazans have for decades had a high rate of hunger is that not enough food is moved into Gaza. Hamas doesn't control that - Israel does. The blockade of Gaza prevents Gaza from having a functioning economy.

No, Palestinians do NOT have ports. Remember? Biden is working to create temporary ports to make aid deliveries. Will this work? We'll see, but Israel will still be the food distribution management in Gaza, checking what arrives and choosing how it will be distributed. So far, the main problem has been with Israel checking what arrives and choosing how it is distributed.

Israel destroyed their airport.

This is true. If we built a wall around a German city during WWII and worked to starve them to death, I would object to that tactic.

Hamas can not "feed its own folks". There is a blockade around Gaza what gets in and out is purely a decision of Israel.

I'm a little shocked, as the fact that Israel has run Gaza as a open air prison is the major point of contention in this war.

 

I've cited the Likud party platform that says that Israel will rule from the river to the sea.

I've pointed out that Israel has control of all points of entry/exit, and Gaza has always been kept in a situation of food insecurity, abruptions of water and electricity, insufficient medicine and building materials.

These are acts of war. The war did not start in October.

 

No need to repeat myself. You can continue to do so if you like.

 

True. We have little ability to bomb with any precision, and the result was that a lot of civilians died.

BUT, we did not encircle a city and prevent people from leaving or food from entering while they died of starvation.

That is not a legitimate part of warfare. There are Geneva conventions about that.

Likewise, Israel has responsibility for the more than a million civilians it has pushed into Rafah.

 

I can't think of any particular city siege in Germany during World War II. By the time allied troops were on German soil, it was pretty much all over. But do you think if a city had resisted and had defended against the allies, we wouldn't have sieged them?

 

Yes. Basically the allies just ran through Germany except for the Battle of the Bulge in which Bastogne was actually surrounded in a siege like maneuver by von Rundstedt, leader of the German Panzer Divisions.

 

Aww nuts.

 

You have PROOF that Palestinians are starving?

IIRC the U.S. did indeed try to starve the Germans in WWII via the blockade of goods (including food) being allowed to flow into Germany.

And we had every right to do so.

 

In this case, the war is being waged against a starving civilian population. Women and children absolutely are being killed, including by denying food, water and healthcare.

No religion can possibly promote that as an acceptable action.

 

Nobody has the right to starve anybody. Ever. Those are the actions of tyrants and monsters, that go against human rights and any decency. Just because a nation does it does not mean it has the right to.

 

These conditions are not the goal of the fighting, they are a result of the war being fought. See it as you may, this was triggered by an attack that actually did target women and children, civilians as a primary goal.

 

So, no different than what Israel is doing. There is no good guy here. Certainly not Bibi and friends. The fighting needs to stop now. That is far more important than killing Hamas. Putting Netanyahu behind bars should be a greater priority than defeating Hamas, as his policies has caused all of this, including the October 7th attacks. Israel will be far safer from Hamas when Netanyahu is gone. The US is slowly starting to realize the root of all the problems, though they loathe to admit it publicly. That of course does not justify what Hamas did, any more than what Hamas did justifies killing 30,000 innocent Palestinians.

There is no way to peace. Peace is the way.

 

The fighting will stop when Hamas is eradicated just as the fighting stopped when the Nazis and Samurais were eradicated. Most of those 30,000 killed were Hamas terrorists. The Hamas controlled Ministry of Health does not split out terrorists killed. And the response of Hamas to the 2009 Goldstone report shows that most of the killed are indeed Hamas.

 

The old Hamas ace in the hole bleeding heart campaign to save the poor people who wouldn't hesitate to pull a trigger to kill an Israeli. What a ****in mess that was absolutely predictable. Bibi probably has a stopping point because he knew this was coming.

How many hostages does Hamas have left? We remember hostages don't we?

 

The goal of the fighting IS genocide. Netanyahu's Likud policy states that. They state that there can be no government but Israel from the river to the sea.

They have been waging continuous war against Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza for decades.

The Hamas terrorist attack does not justify genocide. It does not justify starving children to death by denying food, healthcare and water to drink.

Let's face facts. Nothing Gaza could do would repulse the forces that Israel has used against them for decades.

And, the USA and some other countries have worked to ENSURE that Gaza has no way forward.

That is also true for West Bank. Given their objectives, they have continued bulldozing the homes and farms of Palestinians in order to transplant Israelis onto that Palestinian land. The are ruling much of West Bank with Israeli MILITARY law, in which Palestinians have no representation. Now, we're seeing these settlers shoot Palestinians of all ages on the streets and with impunity.

There is NO EXCUSE Israel can use for their progress on genocide.

And, the USA is a significant part of that as we veto calls for ceasefire and ship arms to Israel to use against the huddled masses of Rafah and other cities that really no longer even exist.

 

Your first statement is unquestionably wrong. I stopped there.

 

There is no chance that Israel is going to end Hamas by more of there slaughter and destruction.

Natanyahu's demands for ceasefire are that Hamas return all hostages and for that Israel will pause for a few short weeks, after which they will continue the slaughter. During that pause, Israel would maintain its full presence and control of Gaza.

Do you really believe Hamas would give up all its hostages for THAT? I sure don't.

In fact, what Gaza demands is that the war be terminated and Israelis leave and allow Gaza to operate as an autonomous country with rights of international trade, permanent access to water and electricity, etc.

 

Cuz Israelis, who have as much right to exist as anyone, continue to persist in doing so?