The Islamic people tend to get a bad wrap I know of a near death experience account that verified a verse in the Koran that could help Muslims to gain confidence which would tend to help them to be less fearful of information. http://www.answering-islam.org/authors/cornelius/crucifixion_quran.html Page 137 to 163 of the following book verify this verse in the Koran: http://www.amazon.ca/The-Thomas-Book-Gospel-Brother-ebook/dp/B0041D8YXW The Thomas Book: Near Death, a Quest and a New Gospel by the Twin Brother of Jesus [Kindle Edition] Bruce Fraser PhD MacDonald (Author)
Intriguing . my wife's family comes from Italy . through Ecuador Rabbi Nachman of Breslov taught a way of approaching people that could transform not only the Middle East but the whole world .. http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Nachman_of_Breslov I attempt to apply this principle here in this thread .. http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=341905 I believe Abraham said "good son and good Prophet" to The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) If more Christian Mystics and even some Jewish Mystics will begin to discuss the theory that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was in many ways a Prophet Like Unto Moses as well as perhaps King David or Elijah or the Patriarch Abraham reincarnated........ then peace will soon break out in the Middle East!!!!!!!!! http://www.near-death.com/muslim.html
You are wrong. Some neo nazis believe Jews are khazars others believe they are a whole mixture of races including outdated and useless terms like hamitic, semitic, etc., making them a 'mud people' according to them. White supremacists like the ones on stormfront almost always deny that Jews are gods chosen people and continually say they are not the hebrews but are imposters. If anything its anti-zionists and white supremacists that share the most in common: that jews, especially ashkenazi jews are not descended from the israelites or hebrews but instead are 'fakers'. Both groups are pro-palestinian (for different reasons) and try to link modern palestinian arabs with the ancient indigenous peoples of that region. Shlomo Sand's book has been refuted by the dozens genetic tests including the latest ones. Besides, history and linguistics also prove him wrong. Khazars are turkic central asian mongolians, they aren't european at all. Most proponents of the khazar theory say ashkenazi are east european, so they don't even understand the very theory they are promoting. Ashkenazi Jews are middle eastern and mediterranean. View attachment 27581
Excellent post Ovadia! I run into that Khazar theory quite a bit on the internet and I am so glad to have more material to refute it with. Thank you!
Yes..... but near death experience accounts as well as many other factors are transforming religion fast..... President Obama's brother is certainly doing something major to assist in uniting Muslims with Jews on at least some issues: http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...obama-one-worlds-most-courageous-muslims.html Is Malik Obama one of the worlds' most courageous Muslims? In my opinion.....YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!
No problem, in addition to the wealth of genetic studies I have on european jews (ashkenazi and sefaradic), I have lots of pics of dark skinned ashkenazi jews, both pre-ww2 and current. The closest relatives of ashkenazi jews are sefaradic jews, then my type (iraqi/kurdish jewish) cluster close with them as well. I am dark skinned, so is my dad, although some of my iraqi relatives have red hair and fair skin and blue eyes. Some ashkenazi jews are darker than even us (mizrahim).
Wow! Do you really believe that you are "god chosen", speak special and superior? Thank you for admitting that! If somebody believes that there are "god chosen people", then he is a racist, a supremacist and a religious fundamentalist. If a Jew believes that he is "god chosen" because of his supposed "Jewish blood", "Jewish genes" (speak his supposed "Jewish race"), then he is a Jewish racist, a Jewish supremacist and a Jewish religious nutter (like it is the case with Yizchsk Ginsburg, who believes that it is OK to kill a non-Jew, if a superior and "chosen" Jew needs his liver, or Ovadia Yosef, who believed that non-Jews are just animals who were created to serve the superior and "chosen" Jews). If somebody rejects this religious and racist crap about inequality of himans and just believes in science, then he his an enlightened and honest man.
If Christians can believe all non-Christians are going straight to Hell, then Jews can belieev they are God's chosen people. its all the same idea.
Jewish Genetics evaluation here: VIDEO https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rTJFziTzOeg#!
Interesting video. Thanks. Although even maternally some ashkenazi jews about 40% descend from four female founders of near eastern origin according to the Behar study. But lets go by the video's premise that 50% of maternal dna is european (mediterranean to be exact), that still leaves 50% middle eastern on the mom's side and at least 75% on the dad's side. Thats a lot of middle eastern ancestry for ashkenazi jews to have! wow, good video. The khazars have been ruled out entirely, infact Elhaik showed by accident that ashkenazi jews share dna common to south caucasians who are in turn mixed middle easterners (like armenians and georgians). People also forget that the euro dna picked up by the ashkenazim is mediterranean from greece and italy, not from poland, germany, or ukraine. So essentially they are mideastern/southern euro (mediterranean) hybrids. Some ashkenazi jews are very dark skinned, darker than most european groups and certainly look alien to europe. They don't look mongolian or turkic either. The crimean karaites on the other hand are turkic and probably descend from khazars and eastern europeans. Ashkenazi Jew who looks yemenite.
Middle Eastern does not mean Jewish, there are no "Jewish genes", dude! The conversion to Judaism does not change the genes of a Middle Eastern persons, and most people from the Middle East were pagans 2000 years ago. So the direct maternal or paternal line that points to the Middle East is not a prove that this ancestor in the Middle East had already converted to Judaism 2000 years ago. It is possible that this ancestor was a pagan 2000 years ago, and converted to Judaism in Yemen in the 5th century AD. Besides that, the direct male or female ancestry is only a tiny percentage of total number of ancestors. The direct male lineage is easy to trace, because it is transmitted from father to son in the Y-DNA. But what about the indirect ancestors? Well, you have to look for the so-called "autosomal DNA", to make a judgement about the bulk of the ancestry of a man. This picture illustrates this phenomenon: The red and blue lines indicate the direct male and female ancestry of a person. As we see, if you go 2000 years back, then the direct lineage becomes a tiny percentage of the ancestors. Why did Zionists chose the direct male ancestry to prove the "Jewishness" of a person? Well, because they applied these tests to the so-called "Cohen clan", a tiny minority of Jews (about 3% of all male Jews are Cohens). The first genetic tests were done with Cohens, but the results of these tests were then applied to all Jews. That is a treachery. If the Ashkenazi and Sephardi Cohens have some similarities concerning their direct ancestry, that does not mean that an average Sephardi and an average Ashkenazi have these similarities too. They pre-selected the people for their tests, and that is what honest scientists would call dishonesty. About 50-70% of today Ashkenazi stem from mixed Russian-Jewish families, and it is obvious that they did not randomly select the Ashkenazi for the genetic tests. They only selected from the smaller pool of these 30% of Ashkenazi, who are believed to be of pure Jewish ancestry, but the results are then applied to all Ashkenazi. So it is openly stated, that the overwhelming majority of Jews who migrate from Russia to Israel have non-Jewish husbands or wives, and it is obvious that the descendants of these mixed families cannot be regarded Jewish in genetic sense. So how do the Zionists scientists manage to trace some oriental genes in the descendants of Ashkenazim, and why do they fail to trace any non-oriental genes? It is obvious that they are fooling us, because they do not randomly select an Ashkenazi for their tests, they pre-select people, they do genetic tests only to those Ashkenazi that claim to be of pure Jewish ancestry. But even those Ashkenazi Jews who are pre-selected for the genetic testing do not have any genes that prove their ancestors who presumably lived in the Middle East (that is a huge geographic Zone) were not just Middle Eastern pagans 2000 years ago, who converted to Judaism in the Middle Ages. Well, if you take all this in consideration, then you can understand that a Middle Eastern direct male lineage is not a prove that most ancestors came from the Middle East, and that even those tiny minority of direct ancestors who presumably lived in the Middle East had something to do with the ancient Hebrew. You do not need any comprehensive knowledge of genetics to understand these simple basic facts, but some people still repeat debunked studies with Cohen genes and believe that these studies prove that Ashkenazi and Sephardi in general are similar, because their Cohen-Clans have some limited similarity due to the direct male lineage. If somebody wants to read serious genetic research, read these articles: http://www.jogg.info/11/coffman.htm Jews are a MOSAIC of different people! The same is the case with Muslims or Christians! They are religious groups, composed of many different people! And here is a recent study that deals with the autosomal DNA of Ashkenazi Jews, a study that considers not only direct male and female lineage, but the bulk of indirect ancestors: http://www.politicalforum.com/scien...study-ashkenazi-jews-do-not-stem-hebrews.html
Dude lol, the elhaik study was already addressed, the one you just posted I am actually grateful for. It shows that the ashkenazi jews are related to azerbaijani jews and other caucasian populations. Do you know who is related to azeri jews the most? Iraqi Jews, thats me! So you just showed another direct link between iraqi jews and ashkenazi jews. Khazars were turkic-monglos, not european. Caucasian jews come from persia and babylon like I do and speak judeo-tat (judeo-persian) and other languages. Thanks for the study!
Dude. Read what he posted, its simple, precise and the information is an application of common sense and logic. Its not rocket science. It can never be proven, through genetics, that jewish ppl are the lineal descendants of the Biblical Israelites, EVER!
its only logical to assume that the Israelites were very much genetically like their fellow Semites in the Middle East. We know the genetics of natives to this area, by looking at the Bedouins, Samaritans, Asyrians, and other local peoples. We can compare their genetics to those who claim to be Jews, and see how they compare. Fact is many Ashkenazi, Sephardic, and Mizrahi Jews share genes with these native Semites. The Lemba tribe in Nigeria also has these genes, as do the Ethiopian Jews and folks in other places. But you know who do NOT possess these genetic markers? African Americans and most other black Africans/Negroes.
right.. And again, this in no way ties them to the Israelites, it simply ties them to the Arabs in the area, big deal. thats old news.
Once again we have to lock horns. Do you know that half of the so called Palestinians are not Arabs but rather Muslims from <Muslim Europe>? Take for instance Haniyeh (this is not an Arab name but rather a Muslim name.)
If you have any proof for your claim, I would be very interested. I honestly don't know too much about the etymology of levantine arabic names, but haniyeh does sound arabic. Isma'il technically Ismaa3eel is very arabic though. I don't think its a european last name at all. His first name is arabic, and he looks arabian, not south east european. Back to the topic, I honestly think jews look more like anatolian and south caucasian populations. Sometimes we look arabic, but usually jews from arab countries look caucasian like people from azerbaijan or like iranians. There is a term in physical anthropology called anatolid which I think fits the jewish people quite well. Armenoid is another good description.
Here is a list of leaders that have Arabic First names but no Arabic family names. Ahmed Qurei [Abu Ala] Former Prime Minister, Palestinian National Authority Mohammed Dahlan Former head, Preventive Security Service Marwan Barghouti Imprisoned in Israel; Leader of Fatah Tanzim Rawhi Fattuh Former Interim President of PLO; Speaker, Palestinian Legislative Council Ismail Haniyeh Former Prime Minister of Hamas-led Palestinian Authority, 2006-2007 Saeb Erekat Cabinet Minister and Chief Negotiator, Palestinian National Authority Salim al-Zaanoun [Salim al-Zanun] Speaker and Chair of Palestinian National Council Jibril Rajoub Former head, Preventive Security Service Faruq Qaduma [Faruq Qaddumi] Member of PLO Executive Committee Sakr Habash[Sakhr Habash] Secretary of Fatah's Revolutionary Committee, Head of Ideological Mobilization Department, Member of the Fatah Central Committee
