Legit use of deadly force?

Unfortunately, the person who attacks you is extremely unlikely to give you any time to think about this. If the attacker is violent, thing will happen fast and furious. For example, let's say you do carry a gun and are practiced at drawing it. That would probably mean you need time to recognize the threat, and time to react and draw. Those will take at least most of a second, even if you are ready and skilled. So if you are confronted by a person with a knife in hand, your ability to defend with your firearm will depend on the distance between you. Now many people would fear a gun over a knife- but your chances of survival are actually better from gunshot than from stabbing. The distance between is your safety zone.

The concept of 21 ft being required for you to react and draw is widely accepted as a minimum safety margin, but in actual threats you are probably going to have only 5-10 ft....maybe. That's because an attacker will be either influenced by rage, drugs or adrenaline- and from 10 ft, be physically on you in perhaps a half-second. The attacker is stalking you; already planning how to attack and that is a huge advantage. Hindsight is flexible; but the situation of a surprise attack just doesn't allow reflection on the possibilities. Once the line is crossed and a high threat is recognized, the response needs to be like an automatic reaction. You probably won't have time for anything else.

Every situation is different of course; I'm speaking of an attacker likely to do you serious harm. The problem is, it's very difficult to know what such a persons limits are- if any. That, and if you are wrong or hesitate, you will likely pay for it.

The right solution here is to remove violent people from society. We are not doing that job well; we refuse to recognize those tendencies, refuse to prosecute strongly. A very large percentage of those who commit these attacks have previous records of the same thing. Foolish to think such conduct are mistakes or episodes the won't happen again.

 

Self defense if valid in any state but some states have a duty to retreat others, like WI do not.

 

Yes but the non-lethal options on the table (tasers, OC spray etc ) aren't 100% reliable or safe. With Star Trecky technology when you fire at someone they just slump artistically to the ground (without hurting themselves) only to wake up in a med by a couple of hours later, none the worse for wear.

 

And because they don't know they won't really consider it.

 

Yeah sure, because no one in the United States ever gets their ass shot off when they attempt to commit a crime....

It's like we're subjects living in England or Australia.... Oh wait you never know who has a gun because we're still a free people.

You should probably consider the content of your post before you post it and think about it a little bit...

 

Well until that science fiction becomes reality I guess we'll just have to depend on a gun for almost 100% effectiveness.

 

And yet crime still happens, so much for it being a deterrent.

 

Well I carry a bullwhip when walking my dog, but some might call it Overkill to carry one in public in general.

 

A legal right has nothing to do with feelings.

It is clear cut

 

And yet great numbers of crimes are prevented or stopped with guns . So there is that

 

Except we don't how many were stopped because the criminal THOUGHT the victim had a gun.

 

About 20 years ago I was riding a bicycle in a suburb of Tampa about 10:30 p.m.

Some punks in a pickup truck thought it would be funny to side swipe me. They hit me hard enough to knock my chain off my bike but fortunately I saw it coming and leaned into the door with a mountain bike that has those curved bar ends.

They stopped about a hundred yards up the road, I yelled at them to come down here and get shot, and I retreated behind a low wall in a dark corner of a yard.

I did not have a gun only a silver bike pump and it was a bluff. But you know what it was enough.

Just the convincing threat of a gun was enough to prevent them from coming out of the truck there were three of them and one of me.

I never called the police that night. I wonder how many other people have prevented a crime and decided not to get the police involved?

After all if you prevented or stopped a crime why on Earth would you want to involve the police?

I suspect the number of such events is not a rare occurrence across this nation.

Had I had a gun that night most likely I would have been justified to fire on them when they turned around and came back.

The damage was on the opposite door of the truck proving they had turned around and came back.

But fortunately it never came to that I would not like to test that in a court of law

 

~ Yes .

 

And another point, further addressing your post above... It's a very rare event that criminals Target a pawn shop or a gun store ( at least during normal business hours when they are open)

You know why? Cuz they know they'll get their asses shot off, that's why!

And in the United States of America you never know who might be packing a concealed pistol.

If you don't think that's in the back of a criminal's mind who wants to attack someone I'd beg to differ.
Criminals prefer their victims unarmed

 

The problem is that its difficult to apply the law equally, in all scenarios...

The other day i parked in parking space which seemed had a sign for expected mothers. I don't recall if i noticed the sign but i meant to park for max 10 mins and rushed to get 1 thing i needed. A black guy was walking with his wife and he started yelling at me and he was very aggressive, like he as acting as if i slapped a 80 year old lady.. For a minute i thought we were going to get into a fist fight... I have a suspicion he was carrying, something tells me that, he came across as some retired military guy... He could've shot me if i lunged at him with his wife next to him...

So... point is. I wouldn't be too concerned with my life if it's a fight with someone i know and we just have an argument about something stupid. People i don't know, how can i read their intentions? But what if 2 guys try to break my door in? What if i'm walking down the street with family and 1 guy runs towards us demanding our wallets... Am i supposed to just wait to see if the man will hurt me and my family and if the two guys trying to break in just need a glass of water?

At some point you can't just wait and see... A lot of people have no idea how fast someone can kill you. This is why i believe police officers shoot people who disobey their orders and act unruly. It literally takes 1-2 seconds for someone to kill you, that fast.... Police officers know this as they are trained to neutralize threats and so their training kicks in and they end up using deadly force.

Another factor is difference in physical strength. A man that is 6'3, 230 lbs of muscle can kill an average man easier than a man who is 5'5, 135 lbs, with bare fists. It doesn't take much for a strong person to choke someone.

At some point, any individual who threatens someone else physically is putting his life in danger. I understand that sometimes a man threatening to have gun, doesn't or doesn't mean to kill you, but it's a lot to ask people to just wait and see......

 

Proving my point, they don't THINK there's a gun, they KNOW there's a gun. I think that openly carrying a gun is more of a deterrent than not.

 

Actually that cannot be proven

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/

https://www.npr.org/2018/04/13/602143823/how-often-do-people-use-guns-in-self-defense

 

I think you're missing the point there are at least tens of millions of concealed Carry permits in the United States.

When you decide to accost a random person for all you know they are carrying a gun.

I'm not a big fan of open carry, I think if you need the gun, the criminal should find out about it the hard way.

The element of surprise is an advantage

 

You guys don't want to prevent crime, you want criminals to attack people with guns so they can be killed.

 

What an incredibly, dishonest straw man and a projection on your part.

What I want is for people to simply do the same thing I do to them which is to say I give everyone a reasonable level of respect and I keep my hands to myself and I expect no less from anyone else in the world around me.

And if a criminal does attack someone with a gun and dies as a result I will not lose a moment of sleep.

What do you want for criminals to have easy victims?

To deny the common man's ability to simply defend their self against crime?

 

~ That actually sounds like a good idea for Chicago, Philadelphia and a few other places .

 

You said.
"I'm not a big fan of open carry, I think if you need the gun, the criminal should find out about it the hard way.
The element of surprise is an advantage"

That's not preventing an attack reasoning, that's when they attack they're going to regret it reasoning.

 

If it is the “deterrent that matters most” why is it not needed in Australia and the UK and all the other countries with fewer guns and far far fewer gun deaths and your “defensive use” of a gun would NOT have been acquitted in any of the countries I mentioned

But even IF it were a legitimate defensive use of a gun it is ONE case

https://www.npr.org/2018/04/13/602143823/how-often-do-people-use-guns-in-self-defense

As for the “safest place” - how can you claim that whilst telling the story of needing a weapon in your home.

Truth is we do not have more assaults because we don’t have guns we have fewer gun deaths though

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/27/us-murder-rate-increase-2020

 

If you draw a gun you use it, it is not something to threaten and brandish with.

According to you liberals, your desire for people to carry a gun openly will lead to a wild west atmosphere with random shootouts at the drop of a hat.
It's not my fault if my stating the obvious use of a gun makes you think I would want to use one that's a queer and strange notion that I don't understand.

I simply realize what a gun is for.

It's not a toy, it's not a display item, it's not something to threaten someone with because they pissed you off with words...