Let's face the facts: Trump is not lying about election fraud

The point is though, that if he is convinced that it is true, then he cannot be lying.

 

That doesn't mean that I agree with the person who made the claim!

Yes, but you went too far by saying that the belief that Biden is senile "cost him no votes." You simply cannot say that.

 

Some of the conservative commentators that I listen to kept talking about Biden's events with like 20 people there, but I could never understand why they didn't think that this was due to a limitation of the number of people due to COVID. Isn't this the reason, rather than a lack of enthusiasm for Biden?

Who?

 

I doubt he is convinced. If he is you are right, he isn't lying, he's just stupid.

Then again, he isn't just saying he is sure there was voter fraud, he is saying he has proof, proof his attorneys have not presented to a court. As such, it is impossible for him to believe he has evidence which means he is lying.

 

@PJO34, that's an interesting signature that you have. Is the below also true?

LEFT-Wing Tactics 101: Step #1: Create nonsense claim Step #2: Get left-wing newspaper or website to write story with catchy headline Step #3: Gullible people spread the "news" and left-wing outlets force feed the nonsense to other gullible people Step #4: The "claim" is proven to be nonsense and nothing comes of it Step #5: Gullible people forget about the nonsense story and the process starts at Step #1 again with a new nonsense claim.

 

Peano arithmetic is provable by deduction from axioms. But if you believe it based on evidence, then in principle it could be disproved by falsifying the evidence.

 

It certainly can't be ruled out that but for Rona, Biden would have had massive showings of support. I tend to think this is a convenient explanation though, given the large overlap in voters who support Biden and those who were likely to have engaged in protests post-Floyd. I tend to think that Biden's campaign had shortcomings muted by Coronavirus, and not that he was hampered by it. If anything, the candidate with lesser showings of support had more to gain by demonstrating overly strict adherence to social proximity rules and whatnot.

 

OK, it's too strong. But there's no reason to think it cost him so many votes that winning was impossible.

 

Not all untruths are lies. Lying entails saying something that one knows to be false. Trump believes many conspiracy theories, so when he spouts one - he thinks he's telling the truth.

What's worse: being irrational or lying? In the case of a President, irrationality is dangerous.

 

Is this not evidence?

 

I'm not suggesting that people voluntarily avoided Biden's events due to COVID, I'm suggesting that Biden's events were limited in how many people could attend.

 

Yeah that was a stark difference between his and Trump's events.

My point is this:

Remember the Pulse shooting? Happened in Florida in May or June 2016? To me, this was a perfect example of how campaigns matter. Hillary Clinton was up in the aggregate, scheduled to appear in Green Bay, WI, with then-POTUS Obama during her campaign. After the shooting, she cancelled and instead gave a speech in Florida on the dangers of Islamophobia.

Meanwhile, Trump got a boost in the polls; he came within 2.9pts of her lead and this was the closest he would come as a candidate for the rest of the election before ultimately winning. This time round, I predicted that Biden's lack of meaningful outreach and demonstrable showings of support would have hurt him, but then again, did campaigns really matter in 2020? Some political scientists say no.

 

Could be. The left certainly isn't immune to nonsense. The right, though, bathes in it. The moment any right wing outlet starts to rebut the nonsense, the Trumpists turn on it and stampedes to an even more extreme outlet (i.e. see the war on Fox News and the NY Post currently under way). Eventually, OAN will report something from reality and they will be relentlessly attacked and the kool-aid guzzlers will flock to an even more extreme source of "news." This is why we can't try to convince the 35-40% of Trumpists to return to reality; instead, we have to ensure we outvote them. This started with the 2020 presidential election, and I hope it continues in the two runoffs in Georgia.

 

There are many men on the right who feel like their preferred sources of news and information are not providing good substantive coverage. I don't really hold it against anyone for having bad ideas in 2020 because we could reliably draw one congressman or woman and find bad ideas just the same. If MAGA is still around, then maybe they poach some more strident diplomats to lead an organization going into 2022. Progressive policies were a joke 5 years ago and now we live according to them. So the prevailing MAGA needs to understand Trump's whole message: make america grrat again. The roads, the construction, the economy, no wars, justice unfer US law, etc. They can't just be Antifa's imitation. They need to be nationalistic at least to my standard. I'm not interested in anyone who views America as the global country for all of Earth's people.

Time to get serious for them because their opposing factions on the ground are at another level in terms lof logistics and resources. They can get a much louder message out.

 

That's just bonkers.

So is that.

 

"kool-aid guzzlers?"

 

So then you don't think that Biden's small crowds were due to a lack of enthusiasm for him?

 

Is this not evidence?

 

How can you say what someone does or doesn't believe in?

 

I think thoese crowds were going to be small, period. Covid just complicated things.

 

Enthusiasm for rock stars is measured by crowd size, not politicians, and Biden didn't hold superspreader events like Trump. The enthusiasm from voters is measured at the polls. Pretty basic idea, elections are.

 

Still, if the pandemic didn't exist, and a politician had 20 people show up to an event or a rally, it wouldn't be very promising.

 

Yeah, I mean I still think that there's a good chance that most of the Biden vote was an anti-Trump vote and that if the alternative to Biden was way more likable than Trump, they would have won. If it was Biden v Obama (if Obama was Republican) for example, then Biden looses the worst Presidential election of all time, and it would never be beaten.

 

60 dismissed voter fraud cases would force anyone to believe there was no voter fraud. It is simply impossible for anyone, including a complete moron to believe there was voter fraud.

 

That's a good description, right?