Life Imprisonment should mean Life - Bring Back Capital Punishment

Discussion in 'Law & Justice' started by The Rhetoric of Life, Jun 16, 2018.

  1. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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    In the UK, an EU country, Life Imprisonment means 10 years.
    There's no capital punishment in schools or the justice system, and prisons are rife with drugs and even riots.
     
  2. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's slightly misleading. A life sentence is a sentence that lasts your whole life but it can (and often will) only include a period in prison and then the remainder of life on parole (typically with quite strict restrictions). The minimum term can be a low as ten years but even that, it is only the point the prisoner is permitted to apply for parole. There's no guarantee they'll get it.

    There can be a sentence of a whole life order, which does imprisonment for life without parole but obvious that isn't going to "mean 10 years".

    Capital punishment in schools? Do you want children executed or did you mean corporal punishment? Either way, I fail to see the link between the two lines of your OP. The statements in the second line are generally true but what's your point in making them?
     
  3. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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    When teachers and head teachers could use a paddle or a yard stick to keep the youngers in line so they don't fall out of line with impunity and grow up to be unruly getting 10 years for this that or the other; discipline them while they're young.
    Also, on capital punishment/execution, there is no fear of hanging at the end of a rope anymore in my country.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
  4. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Physical punishment of children is corporal punishment, not capital punishment. Capital punishment is the death penalty.
     
  5. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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    I see/gather that I was unwittingly using the wrong terminology for what I wanted to say.

    With Brexit/Britain's exit from the EU, might be a time to restore the threat of the law.

    It all risen last Saturday at the death of a 71 year old UK soap star/Eastenders actor, upon reading his life on Wiki, I learned this guy killed a Taxi Driver in an armed robbery while stationed in Germany, and was found guilty of murder, upon failure to prove manslaughter, and sent to Britain for a life sentence of 10 years since he was either in the UK army or police out there at the time/1960's or 1970's, that conviction, he was automatically discharged and sent home to prison.
    He was discharged from service and sent home to UK to serve a life sentence for that murder conviction.
    He came out, had a career, probably couldn't get a visa to go no where like USA or Canada or Australia, but; apart from that set back, he shot a taxi driver in the head robbing him and was found guilty of murder and had 10 years in prison; that's like a slap on the wrist IMO.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Grantham#Murder_conviction
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
  6. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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    Before I found out he died, before I found out he murdered a guy, before I found out he only served 10 years and that's a 'life sentence' here, I saw something/some special on TV in the week about the UK prison system
    This isn't what I saw, but it's about what I saw on TV in the week last week.
    And once they're in prison, they're unruly.





    That actor, serving his life sentence, just became an actor acting plays during his life sentence too.
    Where's the justice?
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
  7. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    I'm anti-death penalty. IMHO, the worst punishment that could ever be inflicted on someone is life with no possibility of parole. I believe in liberty, and I can't imagine a worse punishment than being in a prison for the rest of my life. (I am pro corporal punishment for kids, at least by parents. It should be one of many different methods parents use to punish children as a consequence for misbehavoir).
     
  8. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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    An eye for an eye justice; to deter people better.
    I know people argue it doesn't work, and people still commit horrific crimes where there is capital punishment; but in the UK, prisons are unruly and criminals prosper in them to be criminals on the inside.
     
  9. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The general professional view is that corporal punishment of children doesn't have any positive long-term effect and has potential for harm. Given the nature of the proposal, I'd suggest you'd need to provide definitive evidence of benefit that outweighs the risks of harm.

    Again, there is little evidence to show the threat of capital punishment provides any greater deterrent. Assuming you're being relatively rational and only considering it for the most heinous of crimes, you're dealing with crimes of passion, the psychologically unstable, people who want to die anyway or those who don't believe they'll be caught regardless.
     
  10. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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    Kids are killing and dying in London, the US President even likened it to a war zone, 10 years life inside to someone who doesn't see the bigger picture, with no rope to fear.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
  11. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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    I'm not advocating to give children who kill the death penalty, but what about life behind bars meaning life behind bars?
    Since when wasn't punishment meant to be a bit harsh, that's the point, no?
    To scare people into obeying and not killing each other.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
  12. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As I said, it's questionable how much deterrent effect life imprisonment or the death penalty actually has on the kind of people inclined to kill others though. What's the point in proposing very expensive forms of punishment unless you can demonstrate exactly how it would have significant benefit? There is no magic wand for such a deep and complex set of issues.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
  13. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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    What about bringing back the paddle in the class room?
    Use a yard stick or something, and tell them off like in the olden days when guns were still legal in England?
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
  14. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    I lived in the days of paddles in the classroom, and through my wife, a teacher, I see the days of no paddles in the classroom. Paddles were great at keeping otherwise good kids in line. They would get a paddling, and would act good for that teacher for the rest of the year. It was a great reminder to stay on the straight and narrow. Paddles didn't do much to keep disruptive kids in line. Most pretty much got beaten worse at home, so the paddling a teacher could do was laughable. There is no need to bring paddles back to the classroom. What we do need to do is set up punishments that actually change behavior. For example, have all kids who are suspended have their parents pick them up from school at the time of the suspension and drop them off when it's over, with at the least signing some paperwork at each point. Have a mandatory proof that the child is being supervised by a parent when they are suspended (aka make the parents take off work). That would stop a lot of problems quickly. Parents don't want to be that troubled (and lose a day of work) for their kids' behavior. Also, start having saturday school for behavior problem kids. Take away from their free time.
     
  15. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Well, I believe life behind bars should mean life behind bars. It means that the prisoner punished to life, would stay in prison until they died, be that 5 years or 50 years.
     
  16. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why? What evidence do you have that such a policy (which would need a lot more detail anyway) would achieve anything positive? There are definitely issues of discipline in schools to address but that doesn't automatically make this any kind of viable solution.
     

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