MO: Teachers Told To Locate Themselves On ‘Oppression Matrix’ During A Diversity Training...

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Space_Time, Jan 23, 2021.

  1. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,707
    Likes Received:
    4,178
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I do agree with you here. But this natural behavior you mention is not something we have to accept as insurmountable. Biases and stereotypes are natural to our psyche, but being aware of our tendency to think along those lines can help us to rise above our primal thinking. My guess is that the workshop had the goal of pointing out those natural thought processes.

    Diversity is not a bad thing. It provides us with a greater variety of innovation that can move humanity forward instead of anchoring to the old hunter-gatherer concepts of us and them. Still, we dislike change, especially as we get older. But you're right--the goal should not be to make people want more diversity, but to accept that it's already out there. With the changing demographics, it is something we'll have to come to terms with.
     
  2. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    38,451
    Likes Received:
    14,808
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There isn't a need to surmount it. Just a need to operate despite it. And I think we do that already.

    Diversity is a negative for society and it is silly to suggest that we need to import diverse brain power to have an intelligent society. I think immigration is a positive thing or I should say legal immigration is a positive thing for a number of reasons. But diversity isn't one of those reasons.

    If the best candidate for a position is a minority then so be it. To settle for second best in order to show support for diversity is nuts. Beyond nuts.
     
    ChoppedLiver likes this.
  3. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,707
    Likes Received:
    4,178
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You misread. I didn't say or suggest we need to import brain power to have an intelligent society. My comments don't really relate to immigration so much as they focus on what we already have.

    The old notion of a traditional White and Christian society is full of limitations in how we are allowed to think and act. In the sense that diversity allows us to break down those limitations, it can be seen as a negative for individual societies. Diverse thinking--seeing things from other perspectives--allows us to think outside our little box. Intelligent societies are all over the planet. An better, more intelligent society can rise from that mix. After all, we are and always have been a society made of many others. Does that mean we have to learn to accept others? Yes, if we want to grow.
     
    arborville likes this.
  4. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    38,451
    Likes Received:
    14,808
    Trophy Points:
    113
    These traditions are at the root of the problems with diversity in the first place. People want to preserve their traditions and are uncomfortable with seeing them destroyed. That isn't good. I don't view the traditions as limitations. I view them as natural human behavior. As an example why do we Americans recoil at sharia when it is normal for middle easterners? We do so because of those traditions.

    We have a diverse society. That isn't ideal but it is what it is. We need to work through it and with it, not try impose the traditions of others on that society. We need to stay professional and focused on our work, recreation and other activities. The same holds true of the minorities. When we interface we need to maintain that professionalism.

    I think the Japanese are exemplary in this area. They are among the most racist people on the planet but you wouldn't know it from visiting Japan. Their culture and traditions are to be disciplined and well mannered to a degree you won't find in the U.S. They have learned to deal with diversity effectively. They aren't as diverse as we are to be sure but they could be without having it be as troublesome as it is for us.

    I think of diversity as bad but learning to live with it as necessary. No need to promote it or make excuses for it or to try to make it popular. We just need to adapt to it.
     
    roorooroo likes this.
  5. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,707
    Likes Received:
    4,178
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I agree that learning to live with diversity is necessary. It's not about destroying anyone's traditions. It's about accepting those of others, not as your own, but as part of society. Actually, most of this is already addressed in the Constitution. Regardless, the thing in the OP about the training was about making people aware of their prejudices.

    It's interesting that you bring up the Japanese. I lived there for almost four years, and you are correct--they are terribly racist, but you wouldn't know it because they are terribly polite. At least until you piss one of them off. Some have nasty tempers. Conformity was one of those things I noticed most. It is a social expectation. They have good and bad in their culture, and that culture has been in a long process of change. When the first Americans went there, the Japanese had been self-isolated and didn't have a lot of the technology the rest of the world did have. WWII was another big change in their culture.

    I was really glad to come back to the States, but I would like to go back for a visit. I remember some extreme examples of incredible beauty and horrible ugliness.
     
  6. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    38,451
    Likes Received:
    14,808
    Trophy Points:
    113
    WWII destroyed much of Japan and they were forced to rebuild. Since then they have been fascinated with whatever is new. I like a lot of things about Japan. Some of it makes a lot of sense. I liked the mirrors at curves in the road. Instead of just being warned about a curve the driver gets to see around it. I liked that car registrations became more expensive as cars aged instead of the opposite thing we see here. It motivated people to buy new cars. That was good not only for Toyota et al but also for the air quality and the overall appearance of the cities. I liked the Shinkansen. I liked the very low crime rates. I loved the yakitori. I liked the efficiency with which they manage their factories.

    Yes, some ugliness to be sure but a well oiled culture and a great standard of living. They have done pretty well with their crowded island chain.
     
  7. ChoppedLiver

    ChoppedLiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    5,703
    Likes Received:
    2,224
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Who says we have to accept others as a prerequisite to growth? You?
     
  8. ChoppedLiver

    ChoppedLiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    5,703
    Likes Received:
    2,224
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's easier to be disciplined and well mannered to someone who has a buck in their hand.
    The ones bringing the "diversity" want us to accept the good AND the bad that they bring. All the while complaining about the bad that they perceive they have come to when they, themselves, are just not adapting to the diverseness that they chose to live with. That is usually the case.
     
    roorooroo likes this.
  9. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    38,451
    Likes Received:
    14,808
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I doubt that but I can tell you these things are baked into Japanese culture. They have nothing to do with money.

    Diversity goes against human nature so it is bad for society no matter what good or bad it brings. Yes we haven't adapted well to diversity and probably won't since it goes against human nature. That was the point of my post.
     
  10. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2018
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    1,172
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It is amazing how few people understand how language functions and the effect it has on thought. This is what makes it so easy to manipulate the population.
     
    Adfundum likes this.
  11. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,707
    Likes Received:
    4,178
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The war did force Japan to rebuild a good part of their culture as well as their infrastructure. And yes, the crime rate was quite low, most people were trustworthy. The part that troubled me the most was their uniformity. I believe that's changed somewhat, but school children all wore the same clothes and had the same haircut. They seemed to have a limited set of interests and very little time to pursue them because school was an all day thing when the homework was factored in. One of the favorite idioms was "the nail that sticks up gets pounded down." Life seemed so dull, and individuality was more like a disgrace. I watched the kids march every morning in their uniforms, the factory workers all lined up for morning calisthenics (required). They weren't "allowed" to hate their jobs because loyalty to the employer came before personal desires. I had a strong sense of this life as being preplanned, routine, and had a destiny similar to ants in a colony. That's why I was glad to come back to the States.

    But we did see a lot of incredible beauty. I loved the simplicity of Japanese gardens, the ukiyo-e and sumi-e styles of painting, and was intrigued by the Shinto and Buddhist philosophies. Traveling out into the mountains and staying at an old, off the path hotel showed a side of the culture that was quite different. Hard to imagine a dining room with no chairs and tables were like elongated coffee tables. Cooking and serving the food was literally an art form with every movement like a choreographed dance. That part was hard to leave behind.
     
  12. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2015
    Messages:
    13,587
    Likes Received:
    5,007
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That would mean I gave a rats ass.
     
  13. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    28,088
    Likes Received:
    10,605
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Oh, you didn't hear?

    Liberals are excellent at addressing all of societies issues, they have solutions for everything. Its just not their money or their actions they need to utilize to achieve their utopian ideological goals, its everybody else's. If everybody else would just follow their orders (not their lead of course) we could fix everything!
     
    Seth Bullock and roorooroo like this.
  14. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    28,088
    Likes Received:
    10,605
    Trophy Points:
    113
    roorooroo likes this.
  15. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    29,311
    Likes Received:
    4,187
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    As someone who had to run diversity training-yeah. I’ve done this in a simpler version. All it does it tell people “hey, you have a lot of things in your life to be thankful for because other people don’t have them”. No different than saying what you’re thankful for on thanksgiving.
     
  16. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,707
    Likes Received:
    4,178
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I did a bit of diversity stuff in college. Our first goal was to allow people to talk about racial issues in a respectful manner. Getting people to realize they were making comments that were offensive and full of racial stereotypes became quite a problem. Even those with the best of intentions tended to look down on minorities. I didn't realize I was doing that until it was pointed out. One of the other members of the program told me he would "rather be around a bunch of Southern rednecks than liberals because [he] knew exactly where he stood in their minds." He said rednecks don't hide their prejudices, but liberals don't see their prejudices. I was part of that liberal group he was referring to. He made me aware of the stereotypes I was using when we spoke.

    So, getting back to the OP, I see that kind of workshop as a positive, not something we should be afraid of, and definitely not part of some nefarious Demo-Commie-Global-Soros plot to take over the world and undermine what it means to be American.
     
    Kranes56 likes this.
  17. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    29,311
    Likes Received:
    4,187
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    They're not. I mean my favorite example to use is having a mailbox. There's so much you can't do without someplace to get mail from. You're not wrong about minorities hating that, I hate it when cis people are like "oh we need to protect our trans brothers and sisters" or something like that. But it's still needed. It still does help even a little bit. I just think it's a sign of things to come with the far right becoming more mainstream.
     
    Adfundum likes this.
  18. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2017
    Messages:
    2,815
    Likes Received:
    3,093
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So how does this work? 3 points for the left column, 2 points for the middle column, and 1 point for the right column? Add them up and see just how damn oppressive you are?
     
  19. arborville

    arborville Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,725
    Likes Received:
    620
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    You know strong bonds between people of different races can be made based on the conditions of their hearts. That's why we have interracial marriages and friendships. Racial diversity is only a barrier for those who allow it to be.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2021
  20. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2015
    Messages:
    13,587
    Likes Received:
    5,007
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Far right or far left are not mainstream by definition. What will be interesting in the next 4 years is watching the MSM reconstruct the story and to see how it actually took hold in the next elections.
    We're all in this together..........or are we?
     
  21. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    29,311
    Likes Received:
    4,187
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Yeah no. Far right ideas are becoming more mainstream and it’s very dangerous. Trump has radicalized people, no matter how you look at it. He enabled radicalization under his watch. There is no such thing as MSM it’s just something you came up with and it conveys some meaning to you. It means nothing. That there is an example of what I’m talking about.
     
  22. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    38,451
    Likes Received:
    14,808
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, it is human nature. Some can work past it.
     
  23. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    38,451
    Likes Received:
    14,808
    Trophy Points:
    113
    As I said, the Japanese are more disciplined than we are. I'm with you, though. Japan is certainly charming but I prefer the U.S. big time. I have lived in Latin America and Europe and could make a good life in those areas but I would have a tough time making it in Japan.
     
  24. HockeyDad

    HockeyDad Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2019
    Messages:
    5,327
    Likes Received:
    6,916
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Wait until the resources run out. Diversity can only be overcome when there is a glut of resources. Any cursory glance at history will tell you what happens when the resources run out... INSTANT TRIBALISM EVERY TIME.

    When I see innovation I am not seeing the diversity you speak of. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Larry Page, Linus Torvalds, Bob Kahn, Vint Cerf, Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Travis Kalanick, etc.... Innovation does not come from groups of people, it comes from 1 or 2 creative geniuses (basically freaks of nature).

    When I look at the states by income equality, it does not escape my notice that states with less income inequality tend to be less diverse. When I look at states by test scores, once again there seems to be a negative link between test scores and diversity. You can look this up yourself. California is now majority Latino. Much more diverse than it was 40 years ago. How has all that diversity helped it?
    upload_2021-1-31_13-47-59.png

    Diversity is our strength is a propaganda manufactured by globalist billionaires to justify flooding Europe, America and Australia with cheap 3rd world labor. The same people that say diversity is our strength also speak of white privilege (to set the new immigrants against whites and to blame whites for their own lack of success). This will go Lord of Flies or Soviet Russia eventually, the question is if it happens before or after we die.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2021
    roorooroo likes this.
  25. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2015
    Messages:
    13,587
    Likes Received:
    5,007
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Perhaps the ideas only look far right to you because of where you are viewing them from?
     
    roorooroo likes this.

Share This Page