Dodge noted, already said the hard data from BLS and CBO is not the dispute, it is your fallacious use of them that has been refuted. Clear now? Are we clear? You're the one making the fallacious claims about them you tell us honestly this time.
An honest one, you know the old lies, damn lies and statistics thing. Where did I say I am a business owner? I am in sales, industrial sales.
Except the elderly comprised 39.6 million of the population age 65 or older in 2009 and the 0.1% are 375k so I hardly care about those elderly who are within that group. I wasn't building a strawman at all. Source: http://www.aoa.gov/AoAroot/Aging_Statistics/ Just like a few decades ago employers were paying workers wage increases year over year (yes, in excess of inflation) for 150 years prior to the 1970s and since then have stopped, all while enriching those at the top to extreme levels. So what's your point? Those at the bottom earn less than they did in the 1970s relative to inflation so they have less to pay taxes to. That money ended up in the hands of those folks at the top. Thus a shift in taxes perhaps? Just a guess, but the wage part is fact for working people, and no, that is not only for bottom wage earners. It's for all of us who are not top executives. To what end? You made no point other than say you could make yourself richer without capital gains taxes....DUH! That'd be a good spot for one of your childish emoticons right there!
Well he came into office on a bubble bursting and an economic slowdown/recession along with 9/11 and by this time in he term it was 2006q1 8.3 2006q2 5.2 In current dollars. But Bush is not in office, Obama is and the issue is GDP NOW! Yours and others diversions noted.
Yes it did happen along with an explosion GDP revenues due to the explosion of economic activity. http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=161
Quote Originally Posted by Bluesguy View Post So what? Government has not claim on a certain percentage of GDP but go back and include the 2008 and 2009 budgets which were Democrat budgets support and voted for by Obama and including HE signed HIS 2009 budget into law. 2008 and 2009 were NOT Bush administration budgets, they were Pelosi and Reid and Obama budgets. That's not a game, those are facts. Refute them if you can or run away. Does change them. Yes I know the left has a desperate need to divorce Obama of the 2008 and 2009 budgets and the deficits they created, but he was part and parcel to them with the 2009 being HIS budget request which HE signed into law. You can choose to be honest about it or not.
You are wrong and didn't answer the question. The Bush Depression started in Bush's second term. He was handed a Clinton surplus economy and Bush squandered it into record deficits. Two wars on credit cards. Medicare Part D unpaid for. Unfortunately you can't see that Bush made this mess and it will take several years more to crawl out of this hole republican policies dumped the world into. Stop listening to Fox News, Limbaugh, Alex Jones and other right wing radio. It's pure propaganda!
A recession that we were due for after 52 months of solid growth started in 2008 yes, so what? Presidents deal with recessions, so successfully as Bush did with the one he inherited, so not so as Obama with the one he inherited. He was handed an economy that had entered a slowdown before he even won the nomination of his party and went into a recession within weeks of his taking office and a surplus that had already fallen in half due to the slowdown and recession, and it was the Gingrich/Kasich surplus not Clinton's. A peak deficit of $400B for one year then as his policies kicked in, the tax rate cuts were sped up in 2003, dramatically falling deficits to a paltry $161B. So what happened to those deficits after Reid and Pelosi and Obama took over? How did Bush "make it"? What Republican policies dumped us into a hole? And it we would have crawled out several years ago had Obama implemented the correct policies and gotten out of the way. Is that really best you got? Got anything intellectual to add or just the propaganda you get off MSNBC and Matthews and Madow and left wing TV? Deal with some facts, by this time in he term it was 2006q1 8.3 2006q2 5.2 Where is it under Obama and the Democrats?
That is some massive willful delusion you are working on there, I guess it's necessary to maintain your position, you have to block out reality for it to make sense....
Actually you do care. How many people you think are in the top 0.1%??????????? Let me know when you figure it out..... You're an economics expert but you haven't figured out wages are dictated by supply and demand?????? You're well past due for that refund...... EVERYONE can get richer without capital gains taxes. Maybe some of the "poor" can invest those thousands in earned income the government steals from others annually who REALLY earned it, and use it to raise their monetary/wealth status.
I already did your homework for you and gave you that answer earlier in the thread when you started your emoticon fun. Let me know when you regain your memory from when you read the answer last time. Figured it out? I'm well aware of what happened, the history behind it, the economic changes that prompted it, etc. So you're all for pushing those jobs out of the US, bringing in cheap labor from Mexico and enriching top executives via exorbitant wages while wages across the entire working class remain stagnant or drop over decades? Sounds like your refund is due if you haven't figured out that all those events have led to the very lack of supply and demand we're facing now (along with other factors, of course). It also led to the highest household debt in world history on a global scale, choking economies around the globe. You're 2 for 2 on DUH comments. "Everyone can get richer without capital gains taxes." Wow! Who'da thought?! But how many lower and middle class can "get richer" in reality without capital gains taxes when they're strapped with debt and paid less or equal today as back in the 70s? Maybe because they're just living such lucrative lives that they have the spare change to invest. Have you ever checked the stats on investments by income group? Probably not...too much time spent making emoticons and points on forums that really aren't points at all instead of actually opening the econ books.
Sure you have. Any "social welfare" is the government FORCEFULLY taking from one who earned and handed to another who didn't earn nor deserves..... No one owes you, nor do you have the right to demand someone else provide you shelter, food, clothing, jobs, ad infinitum. But it's cool. Your lack of respect for what other people earn ends up biting you in the ass anyway.
Sure I do. Stealing is stealing. Just because the government does it, doesn't mean it's right or justified.
that sounds like something a freeloader would say do you think you shouldn't have to pay your fair share of taxes?
To be fair, most of your supposed stats have been removed due to the usual lack of supporting evidence/links/info. So as you completely make up stats... you insult Conservatives for believing the ones they find and provide?
Quote Originally Posted by Bluesguy View Post Define what is a citizens "fair share" of taxes. ROFLMAO no it doesn't set rates it only collects taxes, go back to your government class and study up. Who told you the IRS sets tax rates? In the meantime what is the fair share you said the person should be paying and how do you know they aren't paying? Give me your numbers as to what a person's fair share would be.
it collects taxes, enforces them and provides information about them notice how i said nothing about who sets any rate
Yes it doesn't pass the laws that govern the rates and how much someone pays, it only collects what those laws state is owed, it has nothing to do with setting the "fair share" someone must pay. So what is my "fair share" you speak of be specific this time.
Paying for legitimate government services such as specifically enumerated within the constitution is not stealing. STEALING is wealth redistribution carried out by government force.
