More lies about Israel and hospitals

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by RWKindaguy, Nov 21, 2023.

  1. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    UN agencies and NGOs say that 60% of Gaza has been food insecure.

    How could that be a surprise? They have 2.3M people living in an open air prison.

    Of course, right now they are starving.

    You locked up and starved 2.3 million people and then thought they wouldn't fight back???

    Where the heck did you get THAT idea?
     
  2. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    Turkey has the largest European army in NATO.
     
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  3. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    No, the south is absolutely NOT safe and has not been during the Israeli assault.

    You have stated that they are all terrorists and the IDF has made that clear in their slaughter of civilians.

    And, you KNOW that humans will not tolerate that.
     
  4. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Israel is at war with Hamas. Why did you have to ask that?
     
  5. georgephillip

    georgephillip Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What have the Jews of Israel done to make you think they would not continue their 75 year-long campaign of ethnic cleansing of indigenous Palestinians if Jihadists abandoned armed resistance?
     
  6. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    I guess no one but me on this board has figured out that what keeps the various competing interest groups among the Jews in unison is the never ending threat of Jihadist terrorists
     
  7. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    And a ruthless army at that. I was once stationed at Camp Ross Korea which was located a few miles south of the DMZ. Across the road was a Turkish Army compound. One night we heard shots from across the road. In the morning there were three dead North Korean infiltrators hanging by their necks at the compound gate. The corpses stayed there for nearly a week. The point they were making was obvious. I was glad the Turks were on our side.
     
  8. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    It is hard to tell from where I am sitting, since Hamas is one of the few things they haven't even come close to destroying in Gaza.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2023
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  9. georgephillip

    georgephillip Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Israel's colonial nature has become part of its national DNA, imho. Instead of ending its illegal occupation of Palestine, it has multiplied the number of illicit Jewish settlements and settlers on stolen Palestinian land, networked through special Jew-only bypass roads; thereby, creating a dual system, a superior dominating one for Jews and a lessor one for Palestinians.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/11/24/this-israel-has-no-future-in-the-middle-east

    "As one apartheid was dismantled in South Africa, another was erected in Palestine.

    "In the absence of peace and in the shadow of colonisation, the country has slid further towards fascism, enshrining Jewish supremacy into its laws and extending it to all of historic Palestine, from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea.

    "In no time, the fanatical and far-right parties gained momentum and took over the reins of power under the opportunistic leadership of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, undermining Israel’s own institutions, and all chances of peace based on coexistence between two peoples."
     
  10. georgephillip

    georgephillip Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yet it is the Jews who refuse to abandon the Zionist project of turning Palestine into a Jewish majority state by ethnic cleansing; how would you respond if your family home was stolen by immigrants?
     
  11. georgephillip

    georgephillip Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  12. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Any side that can justify the slaughter of civilians is a side I do not trust to be honest, and both sides have slaughtered civilians. Those that side with Israel will believe news that is beneficial to Israel while those that side with Palestine will believe news beneficial to the Palestinian cause.

    Frankly I don’t think either side has any interest in a narrative that is not good for their side. Israel and Palestine are both the victim and victimizer. I do not trust either to be completely honest.
     
  13. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    "Israel" is best understood as a joint venture project spearheaded from its inception by imperialist and colonialist interests allied with Christian Zionist zealots using at first skeptical Jewish interests to push their agenda. The Zionist project began as a project to establish a Jewish homeland on lands which at the time were predominately Muslim. That naturally required the construction of an ideology that would somehow "justify" such a population transfer, with the horrors emphasized and advertised under the banner of the Holocaust masking the inherently aggressive, colonial, and fascistic nature of the project. Israeli expansion after the 1967 war laid the groundwork for phase 2 of the project (Greater Israel), with the end of the Cold War and then the emergence of a new and novel foreign policy agenda under the banner of a Project for a New American Century (to replace "containment" and justify US neo-imperialism and military budgets and foreign bases and wars) giving the project new impetus. In the wake of 9/11, PNAC was sold as "war on terrorism"...
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2023
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  14. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was hoping that you would address # 9 and # 10 because none of the "surprise attacks" you listed are comparable to the heinous attack of 7 October.

    Please explain how the most sophisticated detection devices in the world were defeated in the most heavily armed country in the region.

    Thanks,
     
  15. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, Hamas posted videos how they disabled all this sophisticated equipment using drones and guns. And before they did it, they shoot on Israel plenty rockets, to the standard procedure was to run to shelters.

    There were few reasons:
    It was Jewish holiday and the custom is to let soldiers to go home and to keep only skeletal force
    There were many attacks on Israelis on the West Bank and the major part of Israeli army was located on the West Bank - there was not enough soldiers near Gaza border.
    Hamas prepared this action in a smart way - some Hamas soldiers just blocked the roads so the army had problem to move fast to all attacked places.
    One helicopter with soldiers on the way to help was shoot down.
    And when at the and Israeli soldiers arrived, in many cases there were more Hamas soldiers barricaded in homes than Israeli soldiers, so the fight took many hours.
    Hamas attacked civilian places, even after all Hamas soldiers were killed, Israeli civilians stayed hided, specially after the cellular battery died, they have no knowledge if it is safe to leave.

    No doubt, it was a big failure of Israeli army and everyone wants investigation.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2023
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  16. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    well that makes the assumption that those Palestinians were actually there from the beginning.
     
  17. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    I'd appreciate it if you make up your mind - capitalist west, or leftist weed?

    Breaking old tired news: Israel didn't have Western support until the 70s when the US finally understood that the Jewish state was more than capable not only of surviving and thriving without their help but also that it had a lot to offer to allies and friends.

    Renaissance is only possible if old civilizations are re-discovered, reassessed, and reevaluated. What great civilizations had been established by Arabs in the Middle East before the advent of Islam?

    Why do you think you have the right to decide who belongs to the region and who doesn't? Why do you think you have the right to tell Middle Easterners whom to befriend, whom to trust, and what kind of culture should they have?
     
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  18. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

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    What a load of BS....
    Gaza will be "free" when they decide to stop living in Jihadi protest, to lay down arms and invest in economy rather that tunnels !
    "Palestine" will have one representation when they decide to have one - are we also responsible on their choices now ????
     
  19. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

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    How many Gazans did you meet? I met many that worked here in Israel, I NEVER heard of anyone starving there, the markets are always full and they even sell food to Israel for **** sake, the BS coming out of Euro left is AMAZING!
    They sell or rather SOLD Israel vegetable's and fish - you dare tell me they were starving for years and that's why the launched this....."attack" on us ?

    SCREW that
     
  20. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

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    It's as safe as it gets in this time, they declared war on us, they can fight or run.

    Show where did I say they are all terrorists, civilians that stick around terrorists during war and refuse to move away are not civilians.

    You tolerate my ppl slaughter just fine, I dare say you'll survive this war as well.
     
  21. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thanks for your very thorough and reasonable response.

    Do you feel that an investigation is called for also?

    I feel that especially that since Israel created Hamas to fight the PLO that Israel's post 7 October reaction has gone far beyond "self defense" or a "retaliation" and has turned into a genocide that has killed countless thousands of women, children and elderly.

    Since that is at least the perception of most of the world, I feel that additional bombing of Gaza's residents will only broaden the conflict and make life less safe for Jews and Americans around the world.

    Even if Israel is successful in destroying Hamas, it will only be replaced by a similar or more violent group since 75 years of brutal occupation and expansionism (i.e. illegal "Settlements") has only served to recruit broader resistance throughout the region.

    Do you see any end in sight or hope for a peaceful resolution?

    Thanks,
     
  22. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Israel was established pursuant to an agenda or project driven by western colonialial and imperialist interests aligned with Christian Zionists in cahoots with (often skeptical) Jewish interests and groups. Most of these interests were well represented in various British governments but the same way they don't fully control the US government at this time, ebbs and flows in British policy at the time were also apparent based on how dominant these voices were in British affairs. In any case, the initial part of this project came to fruition in the wake of WWII, with the victors (both the west and the Soviet Bloc) behind the creation of the state of Israel. Initially, with most Jews belonging to leftist socialist traditions, the Jewish state had a decidedly leftist alignment and had equal or even more support from the Soviet bloc. Eventually, that changed as the Soviet Union's "anti-imperialist" slogans found better grounds for promotion among secular Arab states in the region who were at the time in the forefront of the fight against Israel that following the 1967 war had become a full flunged occupying power even compared to Soviet/leftist ideas about the proper contours and borders of the Jewish state. That also paved the way for Israel's support base in the US to eventually shift much more to the right, with that trends taking on much larger dymamics after the end of the Cold War -- with the new agenda (PNAC and its subsequent alterations) for American foreign policy by the neocons and their special interest kin taking the place of what had once underpinned US foreign policy (containment of the Soviet Union). None of any of this should be ground breaking or alien to even a modestly educated person familiar with the politics of both the region and the United States.

    The underpinning of the "left" versus "right" divide in western politics are, however, a bit more complicated to explain. Sure, the "left" is percieved as being more "secular", more invested in notions of "social justice" and egalitarianism while the right is at least often aligned with scripturalist religious groups. Once upon a time, underpinning these divisions were also differences on economic issues and the role of the government in redistribution and creation of wealth. But the real division and the seeds of why both end in a deadend lies elsewhere. The left promotes ideas of social justice and egalitarianism within the context of a materialist ideology that ultimately fails to explain why people should (to use a term from social contract theory modified by Rawles etc) behave like there is a "veil of ignorance" for them to willingly accept less than they might be able to acquire advise. The materialism of the left will ultimately make them either hypocrites or will make them seem naive and out of touch with the ways of the world. On the other hand, neither the "social Darwanist" aspects which underpin the imperialistic agendas of the right nor their aliance with religious crusaders holds much of a promising outlook for western politics either. The former will simply strengthen notion of might makes right, leads to facism and the authoritarianism that some on the right claim to be fighting, and ultimately massive corruptions and other issues that will see politics take the form of a free for all fight among tribalist and fascistally inspired forces. The latter, on the other hand, leads to similar things and lacks any intellectual foundation that can sustain free thought and the ingredients for appropirate progress and growth.

    The "eastern rennaisance" I allude to can build on a lot of ideas from the east that can chart a much more hopeful future for mankind. I have in the past tried to explain, for instance, the difference between Social Darwanism of the right and the Evolutionary ideology of Rumi, Tusi and other Iranian thinkers; the difference between a Neitzhchian notion of uberman and one that drives from the latter ideology. I have tried to explain how competition is integral to that evolution (which is both biological and spiritual), and how that competition can be fostered in a (for western readers) a Platonic like meritorcracy whose leaders and guardians are insulated from materialistic considerations but which nonetheless gives due to deference to populist and so-called "democratic" impulses and interests. I have tried to allude to the quest for truth and the falsehood or fraud that is the material world. The latter impermanent, transient, taking different shapes, and in the larger context of things, not as powerful as the forces that drive the human experience (e.g., consider how much of the universe is made of material forces and how much by non-material forces including what is called "Dark Energy" in physics).

    To fully construct what I am alluding to here is impossible. But the kind of propaganda arguments I often see here are simply not going to do much except reflect the talking points of the various competing factions in the politics of our age.
     
  23. georgephillip

    georgephillip Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Where do you place the "beginning?"

    https://omnesmag.com/en/newsroom/is...te 19th and,the Palestinian region was Muslim.

    "Before the creation of the State

    "In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the vast majority (just under 80%) of the population of the Palestinian region was Muslim.

    "However, Christians were a sizeable minority (about 16%) and were present mostly in Bethlehem, Jerusalem and Nazareth, where they constituted more than half (if not the majority, as in Bethlehem and Nazareth) of the inhabitants.

    "Before the beginning of mass emigration from Europe, with the advent of Zionism (we have talked about it in other articles) Jews were instead only 4.8% of the citizens, concentrated in Jerusalem, Tiberias, Safed, and there was an even smaller Druze presence."
     
  24. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

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    Nothing was "stolen", the Arabs back then wanted to end the Jewish homes while the British mandate was still in place, they started a war - just like presently - and they lost it, the ppl they tried to kill or otherwise drive Jews away were mostly driven themselves, that not "stealing" that's LOSING A WAR THEY STARTED. we occupied the DISPUTED land that was designated for 2 states by the UN following a rejection and declaration of WAR by the Arabs.
    That's LOSING not STEALING.

    And this lie is no coincidence, Muslims "never" lose, they lie instead.

    And this time they are about to lose again, Gantz already said Israel wont annex or settle in any part of Gaza, but, their loss will be felt around the globe for all to see. stay tuned for more.
     
  25. georgephillip

    georgephillip Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Jew's attacked major Palestinian cities and destroyed more than 530 Palestinian villages in 1948, killing approximately 13,000 Palestinians and driving another 750,000 non-Jews (including Arab Christians) from their homes, businesses, bank accounts, and farms.

    That was how Israel was born, ethnic cleansing, and it continues today in spite of whatever lies Gantz tells gullible Americans.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/5/15/ethnic-cleansing-of-palestine
     

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