Then, likewise, it is up to you to prove all the thousands of gods created,invented/imagined by man do not exist. Don't ask others to do what you cannot do. Please provide a source to the list of tens of thousands of scientists who converted to god upon realizing that. The list should show which god they converted to. I acknowledge that many scientists were born and raised religious. But you stated people were converted because of their realizations. That's the list you need to show.
Before Jesus was born society had other divine beings they worshiped. The Greeks had their Gods, the Romans had their Gods, etc. Everybody had their own Gods. Sure thousands of people say they saw Jesus. I think he was a real person but I don't think he was divine. I think he was probably just a nice guy who helped people out and during a time when people were all basically super religious in some form or fashion they thought they really nice guy must have come from something divine. Thats what I personally think. Am I right or wrong I have no idea I wasn't there. I didn't see the guy rise from the dead or walk on water or anything. All I know is a telephone story told through the generations. But you say Thor was just a comic book character, however, he was worshiped by millions as a real God well before he was a comic book character. We turned him into a comic book character thousands of years later because we thought the story was cool. Now how do you know that's not what Jesus is? That is my point. All we have are stories. None of us have seen Jesus or met anybody who has. All we have are stories passed down through the ages about people who saw Jesus. It's common knowledge that the more a story gets told the more juicy it becomes. Hell I have to write down instructions to my young subordinates at work because I know that if I simply tell them to tell somebody what I said the end result will not be exactly what I said. Amplify that times thousands years and it becomes pretty simple in my eyes to see how a nice guy who helped the poor turned into the Son of God. But like I said, I have zero problem with religious folks. None, not a bit. Even the annoying ones. I will fight on their side each and every time they are attacked by militant Atheists and Agnostics who have a problem with public displays of religion. Most of the US population considers themselves Christian. So to me this is a Christian dominated nation. They aren't bothering me by praying in public and whatnot and the majority of people here believe in that so I say let them do it. Can't really get offended by what you don't believe in....Plus there's a whole lot of things I don't want to see in society but that doesn't give me a right to tell people not to do it... Live and let live I say. Don't make fun of people for whatever they believe in and I won't make fun of you for what you believe in. Just because more people believe in the same thing you do doesn't automatically make you right.
1- Other 'divine beings' must have been krap 'divine beings' to let themselves be completely upstaged by an unknown young carpenter from a bunch of mud huts.. 2- Why would thousands of people who saw Jesus want to make it up? Motive? You say you don't think he was divine, so who shall we believe, you or the thousands of eyewitnesses who saw him doing that miracle stuff? 3- Go ahead and make fun of Christians for believing this if you like mate- "Love one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the destitute, tend the sick, visit the prisoners, look after the poor"-Jesus of Nazareth (Mark 12:30, John 13:34, Matt 25:37-40) but
I don't know why people would make it up or even if they did. It could be true I dunno nor do I care. I'm not asking you to believe me nor am I even trying to convince anybody to believe me. Like I said, live and let live. You aren't bothering me by believing in Jesus and I'm not bothering you for not. I don't make fun of Christians for believing in Jesus. I only make fun of Christians who make fun other people who believe in something else. Live and let live applies to everybody, just because somebody is a Christian doesn't give them the right to make fun of somebody who isn't. If you expect people to respect your religions beliefs then you must also respect theirs, or their lack thereof. That right there is one of the problems I have with people as a whole whether they are religious or not. People tend to act like "they" are right and "you" are wrong and feel as though they have the right to tell you that. I'm from Louisiana, I know plenty of people who believe in voodoo and black magic and all that weird stuff. My reaction to them is the exact same as it is to everybody else in the world. *Shrugs shoulders*...cool Meanwhile many other people in the world, religious and non religious, will call them names or poke fun at that. That is what I have a problem with. I'm not "better" than you for being Agnostic, you aren't "better" than me for being Christian. Neither of us are "better" than my weird friend who believes in Thor nor my fellow swamp folks who believe in voodoo down in the bayou. We're just "different". Not better nor worse, but simply different. And that is what I want people to understand.
That is important and it seems many have already done so on this thread which is why I did not bother being redundant.
I don't really give a rat's ass whether nonchristians respect christianity or not! I'll be polite to them of course, but the day I respect their beliefs will be the day you can measure me up for a straitjacket..
*Sigh* And that right there is the mentality that I simply do not understand. Having no respect for people who are different than you. But hey, no worries, I say as long as you aren't openly disrespecting other people then you are more than welcome to respect or not respect whomever you please. I'm the oddball Agnostic among my friends. All of my buddies are Christian, some much better Christians than others lol. Some of them are Christian in name only while a couple of them are very devout Christian men. But its great because we are all good buddies. Even the most devout of my friends tolerate me and my heathen ways. Those are the types of people I like. People who simply like me for the person that I am. Who like or dislike somebody based on their character as a person, not on who they believe in as their God. Because at the end of the day that's the way I am. I like or dislike people based on who they are as a person. I don't give a damn what God they believe in because at the end of the day believing in God doesn't automatically make you a good person and not believing in God doesn't automatically make you not. Due to my line of work I've lived all over the place and I can back that up first hand. But I disagree with you on this one. I give a damn if people respect Christianity because here in America a good 75% or so of the population believes themselves Christians. Over here there has been a lot of disrespect towards the Christian population lately and I do have a problem with that.
I could post pics here of religious and social practices around the world that would turn your stomach, for example a dog being boiled alive for dinner in China, and if I ever respect that, you can call me Mary Poppins! Here's a more palatable pic, this one is from Hinduism , you can "respect" beliefs like this but include me out.. (PS- surely if people "respect" and "tolerate" stuff like this without speaking out against it, they're simply turning a blind eye and letting it continue?) National Geographic article
Hey I'm not saying that everybody is a good person or that every belief is a good one. I mean hell there are religions out there that still sacrifice people and other off the wall crap. Perhaps I misunderstood you, I was under the impression that you were saying you don't respect anybody who isn't also a Christian. What I was saying is that I respect or don't respect people due to who they are as a person. Not who or what they believe in. Just because you are of a certain religion doesn't automatically make you a bad person in my book. Even if that religion is crazy. I happen to have a good friend who is Indian and also Hindu. We used to work together back in the day. I like and respect him because he is a good person and a cool friend of mine, that's it. Him being Hindu has zero bearing on it. I don't not respect him because he's of the religion that doesn't see anything wrong with that picture you posted. Thats what I was saying. I like people for who they are, not where they come from or their beliefs or anything other than that. My main group of buddies all believe in their hearts that I will literally fry in Hell for all eternity. To me that's messed up, I don't hurt anybody I'm a good person I believe. But my friends will look me in the eye every day and often even tell me that I'm going to fry. But you know what? I like them anyway because to me THEY are cool as people, their religion is messed up. Why? because I have the ability to like people for who they are, even if they believe in some pretty messed up stuff, like a religion that says their best friend will fry in Hell for doing absolutely nothing wrong.
Make your buddies squirm by asking them if they think they've already been issued with a free pass through the pearlies, then if they say "Yes", remind them that true christians shouldn't ever assume that, and draw their attention to what the great Paul said- "I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time" (1 Cor 4:3) As for people with nonchristian beliefs, I'll always be polite to them as I said, but could never call them friends. For example I entertained a lady to tea a few years ago, but it soon became apparent that she was a Rapturist-cultist and started spouting cultish nonsense, so basically I lost interest in her and she could tell by my yawns, silence and body language that I wished she'd leave, so she took the hint and thankfully buggered off for good.. Likewise I once got talking to a gorgeous woman in town, but then she let slip that she was a Spiritualist church member and the atmosphere between us dropped below freezing point. She picked up on it and we said a frosty goodbye, and she toddled off to her "church" to conjure up the spirit of her dear departed uncle Albert or whatever nonsense they get up to in there..
I think you well know I was referring Post #35 wherein I recapped my posts # 18 and #27 and your post #28. My posts #18 and #27 show your actual questions and my actual answers. Your post #28 shows your intentional conflation of those questions and answers. In post #35 I suggested you look at the original posts if you didn't believe my redcap. You can deny all you want to. It's there for all to see.
Actually a few people said thousands saw Jesus. Those few based their comments on second hand information. They, themselves, were not eyewitnesses.
Huh? Matthew and John were actual disciples, so their street cred was pretty good.. When the first gospels were written, why didn't anybody- not even a single person- from the priests, the people or the Roman garrison ever come forward to say "Baloney, it never happened!"? Obviously Jesus was too BIG to be a myth and they knew they'd make laughing stocks of themselves if they tried to say otherwise..
That is amazingly silly. Why would anyone bother to come forth to argue with a work of fiction. Seen any denunciations of Scientology recently. I mean L. Ron Hubbard had fun starting a religion but no real contemporaries have taken his joke very seriously. Now if Scientology continues to acquire a following perhaps in a few hundred years people will ask why nobody took the silliness seriously at it's beginning.
Wow, bit arrogant there. How about he stays in the thread, as long as it gives him pleasure to stay in the thread, and you stay in this thread as long as you get pleasure doing so. Then he can also make a new one, if he so chooses when the interest rekindles, and you still have every single choice ahead of you regardless. The decision to make a thread does not come with any duty beyond those noted by the rules in how one constructs the thread. He can get bored with the thread, or he be frustrated with the responses or he can spend a week in the hospital, or he can pretend he is living in 1960s for a month.
Christianity was dangerous to the establishment because it urged the people not to be like the snooty boneheaded priests, and also urged them not to be like the warlike Romans, so it'd have very much in the priests and Romans interests to nip this dangerous new philosophy in the bud before it could snowball by calling it hogwash etc. But like I said, not a single person ever dare come forward to say "It's all fictitious baloney" because they knew they'd simply make fools of themselves because too many people saw and heard JC strutting his stuff..
Because they were written fifty to a century after his life and so in that time many of those who lived and were old enough to do so would have been dead, there is not one gospel written during the time Jesus lived and no sufficient evidence from independent sources the Biblical account is true as to the life of Jesus. And some might exploited it if you were the leader of the community of Bethlehem and Nazareth not go we can be a place of pilgrimage and so lets make money on this, here is where Jesus was born and get a bit of straw from his manger blessed by our local priest who is old and saw him born and its all true. *snicker* Seriously look at the cargo cults in our time it took thirty years from being a bunch of visionaries to one person bringing the cultish truth to the natives. So religion is strange.
I notice that you did not respond to my comment again. I suspect that if you did, you would respond "no" instead of the "yes" you gave earlier...which is what I have been saying all along. You made a mistake. It was not a serious mistake...it was just an error. But you seem incapable of acknowledging that you made the mistake.
Not sure there is any actual independant evidence of all those people seeing Jesus strutting his stuff. Post it if you got it!
Just to remind you and save you the time of postings directed to me...I stopped trying to have a serious discussion with you when you went on your Jesus/Elvis rant.
The comment to which you responded is VERY CLEAR...and I have made it even more clear. You were wrong when you posted the affirmative. No problem with that. But lots of problems with you not being able to acknowledge being wrong.
As seems par for the course, in this and other threads Christians claim evolution to be BS and when asked to submit an alternative cannot or do not do so. It is fine to dismiss evolution as the mechanism that led to us and all other creatures as we know them...but PLEASE provide your alternative explanation. And...God Did It is NOT an explanation. If you are incapable of this task then you should refrain from further commentary.
No, we (or I, at least) claim only that there is insufficient evidence to believe gods exist. That's it. We (or I, at least) do not claim gods don't exist. They might, just like Bigfoot and the Easter Bunny might exist.
