My take on th Big Bang

Hate to tell you Dave....a TREE....and all the Atoms that it is made of.....ARE COMPLETELY COMTRISED OF QUANTUM PARTICLE/WAVE FORMS!!!

AboveAlpha

 

You do not understand this at all.

Observation simple ASSIGNS Function and Value....it does not negate their existence.

The CI....is something you do not understand at all and you are attempting to apply it in an manner that has zero Logic.

AboveAlpha

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Understand that Quantum Mechanics indicates a Multiversal System must be in play.

This means all Values and all Functions exist but once Observed are locked into a Function and Value assignment.

But they exist in all scenarios.....until observed.

AboveAlpha

 

The CI concept says the macro world, like Trees, for instance, are in the Newtonian Physical World.
The are governed by the Physics of the macro world and not related to these quantum effects in the micro world.

If you want to deny this, and repeat things which you can not show evidence to support there is no way to go further here.
But here is the science source for what I have told you here:


"What is the physics interpretation of Reality, as associated with quantum mechanics?"
(*)
This interpretation divides things into two realms, the macroscopic and the microscopic.(*)
The macroscopic realm is that of our everyday experience and also that of our scientific measuring instruments.(*)
In this realm classical physics applies, (i.e.; the physics of Newton).

The microscopic realm is that of small things such as atoms and sub-atomic particles, where the Schroedinger equation describes the physics.(*)

The macroscopic instruments then make the observations that cause the wavefunctions of the microscopic world to coalesce into the observed state.(*) Basically, this interpretation says, "that “no microscopic property is a property until it is an observed property," as the famous quantum physicist John Wheeler put it.(*)
In other words, the microscopic world has no intrinsic reality.(*)
Only that which is observed is real."(*)

http://www.seekerscientist.com/dreams-of-reality.html



Like a real tree in a real forrest will make a sound whether one hears that sound or not.

 

I repeat,again, from the source listed above:

"Basically, this interpretation says, that 'no microscopic property is a property until it is an observed property,' as the famous quantum physicist John Wheeler put it.
In other words, the microscopic world has no intrinsic reality."

 

Reality does NOT sire the ideology you call truth.

That is reserved for Fairy Tales.

AboveAlpha

 

"Basically, this interpretation says, "that “no microscopic property is a property until it is an observed property," as the famous quantum physicist John Wheeler put it.(*)
In other words, the microscopic world has no intrinsic reality.(*)
Only that which is observed is real."

The wave function is like Energy.
It has no weight and takes up no Space/time.
Observation collapses that wave and the information it carries then become materialized and is in Reality.

 

?
According to the dictionary, Truth is the image of Reality:


truth
[trooth]
noun, plural truths [trooth z, trooths]

conformity with fact or reality

 

The act of measurement can interact with the system state in peculiar ways, as found in double-slit experiments. The Copenhagen interpretation holds that the myriad probabilities across a quantum field are unreal, yet that the act of observation/measurement collapses the wavefunction and sets a single possibility to become real. Yet quantum decoherence grants that all the possibilities can be real, and that the act of observation/measurement sets up new subsystems

The Copenhagen interpretation is the "standard" interpretation of quantum mechanics formulated by Niels Bohr and Werner Heisenberg while collaborating in Copenhagen around 1927. Bohr and Heisenberg extended the probabilistic interpretation of the wavefunction proposed originally by Max Born. The Copenhagen interpretation rejects questions like "where was the particle before I measured its position?" as meaningless. The measurement process picks out exactly one of the many possibilities allowed for by the state's wave function in a manner consistent with the well-defined probabilities that are assigned to each possible state. According to the interpretation, the interaction of an observer or apparatus that is external to the quantum system is the cause of wave function collapse, thus according to Paul Davies, "reality is in the observations, not in the electron".

Current modern Physicists understand that Quantum Mechanics is not even CLOSE to being fully described by the above Quantum Interpretationalists View thus the ONLY theories that can describe Quantum Mechanics are.....

The many-worlds interpretation is an interpretation of quantum mechanics in which a universal wavefunction obeys the same deterministic, reversible laws at all times; in particular there is no (indeterministic and irreversible) wavefunction collapse associated with measurement. The phenomena associated with measurement are claimed to be explained by decoherence, which occurs when states interact with the environment producing entanglement, repeatedly splitting the universe into mutually unobservable alternate histories—distinct universes within a greater multiverse. In this interpretation the wavefunction has objective reality.

And MULTIVERSAL THEORY.

Either way....Observation is not necessary for existence....observation just locks in VALUE AND FUNCTION.

AboveAlpha

 

I know what the CI says. The microscopic world may have no intrinsic classical reality, but you can't claim that a wave function isn't real. Energy is real too, by the way. If you don't know that, you probably shouldn't be trying to argue about physics.

 

Right.
Once the tree, or you, or I exist, no observer is necessary, or needed, thereafter.

This ALL pertains to the moment of the Big Bang when at first, everything that WAS to be formed materially had to be observed as a micro wave function that would collapse into the Cosmos.

 

Energy is real, but undefined.
Energy has no place in Space/time.
It is essentially an "ability."

Energy is something that can do work, and that is how we define it in Physics.
It exists in a rock on a cliff, as Potential Energy.
It suddenly becomes Kinetic Energy when the rock falls.

Where was that Energy?
We can not see it nor recognize it until the rock falls.

 

You still don't get it.

Every Quantum Particle/Wave Form that was ejected via the WHITE HOLE which was the BIG BANG into the Universe which is still expanding is EXACTLY THE SAME as it was then they are just grouped together differently and continue to be so.

What YOu and I and eveyone else and everything else is made of upon the Quantum Level existed back at the moment it was ejected and produced the expanding Universe over 14 Billion Years ago.

AboveAlpha

 

Conforming with fact or reality IS NOT REALITY.

A TRUTH is subjective.

A FACT is reality.

AboveAlpha

 

Speaking of things being "exactly the same" now as then... Could scientific experiments and natural phenomenon from the future have caused the Big Bang by destabilizing the singularity?

 

Well...I am fairly certain the Big Bang was a Natural Event....and most likely cyclical.

AboveAlpha

 

But isn't the thing with entanglement that the affects and alterations all happen simultaneously regardless of where or when the actual manipulation takes place?

I'm going to make a big assumption here and say that a particle is entangled to itself across time, and, if measured, it should be at the end result of all manipulations across the time of its entire existence.

Unless there's a way to de-entangle the tangle. You wouldn't happen to know off hand, no need to do homework on it, if there is a theoretical way to disconnect an entanglement?

 

Not that I am aware of....in what sense?

Now I believe in the Multiversal System as far as Quantum Mechanics is concerned and this is slightly different but very similar to the MANY WORLDS THEORY.

Multiversal Theory is simply taking into account an even LARGER SYSTEM than Many Worlds as Multiversal Theory sees Many Worlds as just one aspect of Multiversal Theory.

In Many Worlds and Multiversal Theory there TIME is NT for all Quantum Particle/Wave Forms and FREQUENCY shows us this.

The Coppenhagen Interpretation was at one time a BRILLIANT CONCEPT....but it does not cover or explain the vast majority of Quantum Mechanics as those who developed the CI simply did not have the data or knowledge we have today thus what the CI states seems to happen....but what is actually happening is quite different.

I would use this to explain.

If you were asleep and woke up in what appeared to be the cockpit of an airplane and you could only see straight ahead.....and this supposed window of the plane showed you to be taxiing down a RUNWAY with a roadlike white spaced dividing line passing underneith the supposed plan as you taxied.

Now....as you are not accelerating or braking and you are not taking off....and it is dark so supposedly night...and the surface is level....how could you tell if YOU were moving or if instead you were in a simulator and either the DIGITAL VIDEO showed you moving down the runway....or even more low tech....what if a treadmill of tarmac colored looking material with a dotted line running down the center of it was not simply being rolled in front of your vision?

YOU COULD NOT KNOW OR TELL!!!

If you increased in speed you could tell if this was a simulator or REAL because of the G-Force upon your body happening or not.

THAT....is what happened to those who developed the COPPENHAGEN INTERPRETATION.

THEY....were in that cockpit and could not tell if they were really going down a runway....but while there they were able to make some determinations such as how far apart the white dotted lines where in the center of the runway and able to calculate the velocity....(FOR THOSE READING THIS IT IS AN ANALOGY SO I DON'T WANT ANYONE BEING SO STUPID AS TO COMPARE WHAT I AM POSTING IN THIS ANALOGY AS REALITY)....and perhaps find a bit of understanding and they DID!!!

They came to the conclusion that Quanta Function and Value are INDETERMINATE until Observed.

Thing is...that is really NOT what is going on.....although being in that COCKPIT....it seemed that way.

What would appear to be happening is what the MANY WORLDS THEORY decribes as Many Worlds gives us more explainations to Quantum Mechanics....but even MW....is not enough and as I stated...a much larger system seems to be in play thus MT....Multiversal Theory accounts for INFINITE MANY WORLDS VERSES within a true MULTIVERSAL SYSTEM.

AboveAlpha

 

Yeah...

my biggest gripe is that the Big Bang doesn't explain how matter and energy came to be in the first place. From where did everything come, or was it just here, all the time? In that case, that would mean that time goes back, infinitely, such to say that both the past and the future are infinite. There is always a before and always an after. But no one can even describe the point of origin. An infinitely small dot containing all the matter and energy in existence still does not expalin how it got there, or why it was all conveniently compressed like that to begin with.

Plenty of holes to deal with...one of the reasons why I classify scientific opinions with religious ones. I think they come from the same place...

 

The Big Bang is a WHITE HOLE.

White Holes always have at the other end a BLACK HOLE.

Since it is most likely a Multiversal System such Quantum Particle/Wave Forms that were ejected into and created our Universe...could have come from another Universe or in fact could have COME FROM ITSELF!!

As Time is NOT LINEAR....as Past...Present and Future are CONCURRENT in reality.

AboveAlpha

 

Even assuming a multiverse system was real, then you would have to ask yourself from where did those things in the multiverse originate. You still have to solve the problem of either something from nothing, or the eternal existence of all in one form or another.

 

Actually....we don't.

As unlike the way our limited Human Perception and Intellects dictate that things must have beginnings and ends....in reality THEY DO NOT.

Non-Existence is IMPOSSIBLE.

The fact I typed that proves it.

Human's only PERCEIVE TIME....and this makes it difficult for us to accept the cold hard MATH...that being....TIME IS NOT LINEAR.....and....EXISTENCE HAS THE EXACT SAME PROBABILITY OF BEING AS NON-EXISTENCE.

But as we and everything exists....well...there you have it.

AboveAlpha

 

No need to go outside the Universe. The effects are measurable in our Universe.

Think about the Quantum double-slit experiment. They entangle two photons. You know the rest...

But what if instead of two photons its really an extension of the same photon (blob?) divided into disconnected segments. Each segment existing in a time and place until it can't (runs into the wall). But place an Observer in the path and it alters both of the entangled photons. Regardless of WHEN the photons are observed or run into the wall.

It's a non-local time effect. And as you always say: Time is CONCURRENT!!!

Can two entangled photons be un-entangled? We don't know yet?

So anyway, that's entangled photons, but outside in the real Universe we have a bunch of free-floating particles not necessarily entangled to other particles. When you said they are the SAME as at the beginning of the Big Bang I take that to mean they are entangled to themselves and when they run into an OBSERVER all these ages later that changes the particle's state at least a few fractions of a second after the Big Bang when the particles received their properties from the state of the Universe... if not at the Big Bang itself.

 

Well....in Many Worlds or Multiversal Theories there are INFINITE numbers of Photons that are Entangled between all duplicates of themselves in Divergent Alternate Universal States.

I got a bit of a headache tonight Wga as I hit my head on a pipe in one of our Buildings Lower Levels so I guess your guess is as good as mine! LOL!!!

AboveAlpha...p.s...you are vastly improved on your understandings of these issue compared to a few months back....GOOD JOB!

 

Oh, I'm sorry to hear about your head. You probably shouldn't read my posts tonight then because you'll get a deeper headache.

Don't count on my deeper understanding I haven't studied that much.

I think I'm on to something, but, on the other hand, it puzzles me that the inevitable false vacuum decay that is predicted to happen at the end of the Universe doesn't just travel back in time through the entangled particles right back to the beginning of the Big Bang and go boom.

Actually, there was a false vacuum decay a fraction of a second after the Big Bang. And that destruction might be the only way to break an entanglement since it tears down everything.

Argh, no I'm way off target now. I mean to say if entanglement works the way that it does in the double-slit experiment why can't the free-floating particles get affected by something now or in the future, either scientific experiments (like double-slit) or natural (black hole, or something I've not dreamed of yet), and change its state at the Big Bang? Time is concurrent... I'm making the assumption that particles are entangled to themselves. And, I'm assuming that a change at any point in history could happen in such a way that it destabilized the singularity that started it all.

 

Believe it or not you are on to something and that destabilization could be caused by a PARADOX!!!

Now...since we know Space-Time is Relative....and we have actually PROVEN Forward Time Travel to be possible when we placed one Atomic Clock in orbit and another was left on Earth and due to Time Dilation....the clock on Earth compared to the clock that orbitted the planet was a tiny amount of time AHEAD of the clock that was in orbit.

That means the clock in orbit along with the spacecraft and all the astronauts aboard it JUMPED FORWARD IN TIME a tiny amount.

If velocity and distance from the Gravity Well...the EARTH...is increased....the Greater amount of Time will be JUMPED into the Future.

However BACKWARDS TIME TRAVEL has not been proven but if at sometime in the Future Humans were able to travel back in time....and say a man travels back in Time and kills his Father before he was born....and then he returns back to the future....he should not exist...thus PARADOX.

A PARADOX literally destroys and entire TIMELINE AND DIVERGENT ALTERNATE UNIVERSAL STATE....as Nature protects itself as when you travel back in time you most likely would be traveling to an Alternate Divergent Universal Past.

AboveAlpha