Rape is the only way that can happen, it is horrendous crime and against the law. If a woman 'does not want to undertake the risk of pregnancy' the very BEST way (without having to self-sterilize) is to NOT let a penis in her vagina.
The idea that abortion kills a living human being only applies the latter stages of pregnancy. The single cell at conception is obviously not a human and will not become one until quite some time after. I have posted a link to a good video on the history of biology and abortion. The Biology Prof doing the lecture at Yale does a great job of explaining why conception is not the beginning of life. He also addresses some of the false claims out there which may help to clear things up for you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnbni3d2UTg
I usually separate the debate into two parts, the first being late term abortions and the second being abortions that take place relatively close to the point of conception. When it comes to late term abortions, especially in the case of partial birth abortion, I appeal to the fact that the baby is essentially fully formed and hope that people will see there's practically no difference between born and unborn. In the case of early term abortions, I have more sympathy for those who argue for it and can more easily understand the arguments, even though I still argue that it's a human life and that to abort it is murder. I derive this belief from the fact that the embryo has all it needs to grow and develop on its own with nothing else but nourishment and the protection of the womb, which makes it a not-yet-mature but still human organism. James
Late term abortions are extremely rare; women simply would not carry a pregnancy almost to completion and decide to abort on a whim. That's like saying a blueprint is already a house and all it needs is for someone to provide the real estate, building materials, and labor.
It is just so ironic for you that women try to get pregnant. They try….they do everything they can…to have babies. And its ironic that to the women who finds out she is pregnant and going to abort…..that which is in the womb is a fetus. To those who are elated and embrace the fact that they are pregnant….that which is in the womb is a baby. In either case it is human, alive and to get rid of it…or that world you hate using, in fact you won't use it……YOU HAVE TO KILL IT.
Cady SAID, "Late term abortions are extremely rare; women simply would not carry a pregnancy almost to completion and decide to abort on a whim." PROVE IT. PROVE THEY ARE RARE. And you want abortion to be legal because its the woman's body and her right to kill. So…why wouldn't you say something like this…."Late term abortions happen, how many we do not know. Women should be able to kill at any time because I believe a woman has the right to her own body and the decision should rest with her and her alone." Whats wrong with that statement…will you own it?
Oryonder said, How so? Its not human? Its not a person? And what later stages does this thing become a baby worth saving? If its not a living human .then why is an abortionist needed? What is the abortionists job? Is it a carrot? A rock? A pencil? NOT HUMAN? LMAO Why I come here every day to engage with people who do not even know the basics of human science I don't know. But you need to study this your comments are just ..I am not even gonna go there. Yes Harvard a liberal humanistic think tank. Why don't you study what the medical textbook says about life. These are teaching tools that every doctor learns from. And they do not say that life does not start at conception. The guy in the video does not even know the real issues of the abortion debate. It is not about when life starts. Its about women's rights to their bodies. When women abort ..the fetus is alive and growing. Most abortions happen past the time when the heart has started beating around 22 days AFTER CONCEPTION. Most women don't even know they are pregnant .so abortions are done on lives that are growing and alive. Who is this guy? What are his qualifications other than denying the life in the womb is alive. LMAO What do women hire abortionists to do?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_abortion_by_gestational_age_2004_histogram.svg There's your proof.
Of course a single cell is not a person. As the biology prof explains in the link I send you .. Life does not begin at conception. Why would I bother with a medical textbook when these are not subject matter experts. Everything they learn in relation to the discussion of "what is human" is from Biology. Biology is the domain science. It is not the domain of doctors to determine what life is and how to characterize it .. it is the domain of doctors to save human lives. Your ad hom attack is nothing but logical fallacy and your assertion that the abortion debate is not about when life starts is absurd. Lifers are always claiming "life begins at conception .. meaning the life of a human" Second .. there is no "womans body debate" if the fetus is not a living human. When a living human exists is the crux of the debate. If you wish to claim that the having of a "beating heart" = a living human .. then make your case. Quit "assuming the premise" for this is a logical fallacy. If you want to claim that a beating heart is significant such that at this time we should respect the rights of this organism .. then make your case. Until such time as you do it is only hot air.
It's nothing like that. A blueprint doesn't grow into a house. An embryo grows and develops on its own, just as a fully developed baby grows and develops into a man or woman. James
An embryo doesn't "grow and develop on its own." An embryo is sustained by very complex workings of a woman's reproductive system. It cannot grow and develop without attachment to a woman.
HE IS OUT ON A LIMB…..that is not what they teach in medical schools. Tell me what the goal of every abortionist is?
People have answered this question for you in other threads, including myself. You're not putting forth the glaring tough question that you think you are.
So you believe Wiki is the most reliable source? LMAO HAHA Sheeple………..will believe anything. They shut down late term abortion clinics down all over the country…..what do you think go on in them? Better check wiki…...
On the contrary, tired of answering the same question posed by you because you think you're going to elicit some type of earth-shattering response that validates your position. If you want to know the answer, read back over the several pages across several threads of conversation that have already covered that very question.
Well your stuttering again….let me help you. He is hired for the "soul" job of killing something that is human in this case a child.
Why not provide for the general welfare, such that the medical procedure of abortion may become no longer necessary in modern times?
You are quite right that the provision of free or cheap and reliable contraceptives along with the education on their proper use could greatly reduce the abortion rate. It is, however, extremely unlikely that abortion could be eliminated entirely.
As long as their are sexual urges and freedom to have sex….nothing will change. And man is born with sexual urges and we have freedom to have sex. We have education….it is all over the landscape…in our schools, on television, movies, internet…..we are the most sexually provocative and free nation on earth. We celebrate sexual deviancy…we have organizations fighting to allow it…so don't tell me that any more education will do a darn thing. It won't. We are a society living without God…life is not valuable, nothing special…and it shows in every way. Judgement is coming its a matter of time.
On the contrary, we don't live a life where nothing is valuable or special, we live lives were we get to choose what is valuable and special, not have it told to us by someone professing to have the answers. Human civilization is in a state of flux right now. We are finally throwing off the chains of religious necessity(some of us anyway) but it's been with us for so long that it's almost engrained within human society. We are learning more about our world every day which makes the need to turn to religion for answers and comfort less and less. Religion still has some great things to teach about social responsibility and how to conduct yourself, but those values and those lessons that are still relevant aren't in any way tied to the necessity of believing in a deity. We don't need to believe in God to treat people with respect, or to know that killing is wrong. These are all things any competent living human being can figure out on their own. Religion itself is not a bad thing, it's just that it gets hijacked by people more concerned with the history and science of it, and the literal belief in what religious history tells you about each religion and how it and the world came to be. We're more concerned with God being the big daddy than we are about the concepts and messages Christ put forth. The message and the concepts can be taught and learned without the need for the superstition and attempts to control, shame, and scare people into living their life a certain way. That's why people are rejecting God, and why the ones that are succeeding have adapted the religious message to modern times. If you want religion to survive and continue to be relevant, it's going to have to adapt and cope with the fact that it's not the end-all-be-all expert on the world and the universe anymore. It's not on top anymore, and it does not play the same role or hold the same significance that it did a hundred or a thousand years. The questions that all religions have ultimately been created to answer are being answered with human knowledge and curiosity in a much more factual and applicable way than religion can provide.
Junkieturtle said, Speak for yourself. Maybe your life isn't full of anything valuable or special but mine is. I give God thanks for all I have ..you don't. You thank yourself you are your own god. You thank yourself when good things happen .and you lash out and blame god for the bad. You have all the answers to lives questions, right? I feel so sorry for you really all kidding aside. If you can't see the world and the chaos that it is in .it's unbelievable. Violence, rape, social unrest disease sexual disease the breakdown of the family .wow. This is a world controlled by Satan. It is a world that doesn't know right from wrong .that looks to materialism and not God. We are a world in crisis. Look at the United States ..we are so deep in depth that it is statistically impossible to pay it off. Homelessness, not enough jobs .corrupt politicians. Abortion killing millions .forced abortion killing female babies .laws that abuse women children. Corruption everywhere ..WE HAVE LEARNED NOTHING .BUT ARE LOSING EVERYTHING. OH YEA. LOL Why does one need to be nice, good, upstanding? Who cares? Hell if someone can get away with it and there is no moral lawgiver then who cares? Lets do what we want as long as we can get away with it. Is killing wrong wow you believe in it don't you? ARent you pro-abortion? LMAO I can't take anything you say about religion seriously because your not where I am at. God will judge you I can't. You are only concerned about what you think .man thinks in general and without God basically anything goes. Who are you to tell someone what to believe. People have chosen satan to follow that much is obvious. And they will pay .and it will be too late. See you don't even get it. Faith in God is not about religion God hates religion .it is all about relationships .and in this case the relationship we have with Christ one on one. So see you don't even understand .the basics. The thing that is important to you is being able to do what you want. You can't take thinking about turning the reins over to God. You want to call the shots. You want to make up what is right and wrong you want to answer to no one. No rules but your own. The Word of God never changes .it is always the same. He is not like the politicians of our times what flip flop on the issues. So rape is wrong as is abortion as is same sex unions ..as is lying ..as is idol worship. The majority of the world has a god belief. You are in the minority. As I said, I really feel sad for you.
Oh, for heavens sake! The world is not going to end because people have sex, or commit acts of 'sexual deviancy' as you think. If God had such a blooming problem with people having sex, he should get his but down here and tell us that he is bothered by it! I am one person who lives very happily without God in their life, and I am not afraid of the world ending, or this 'Judgement Day' rubbish.
In your reply, if you do not show me the exact quote where I said that my life has nothing of value in it, that I lash out and blame God for the bad, that I thank myself when good things happen, I'm going to call you a liar. If you can't see that the world has been in chaos since the first human society was formed, you're not paying attention. If you can't see that things are likely the best they've ever been over the whole arc of human civilization, you're not paying attention. If anything, things have gotten BETTER as God has become less and less prevalent. Show me this world you speak of without corruption, murder, abuse, homelessness, materialism, and injustice. I'm very interested in when that world actually existed. I suppose I ought to say, when it existed in reality. Not everyone needs a big daddy standing over them with a paddle in order to behave themselves and treat others with respect. I know you find that hard to believe, but it's true. Got news for you. Anything already goes. Is there anything that doesn't happen because God has not allowed it or prevented it in some way? In the last paragraph you were just detailing a list of wrongs with the world. Seems to me God could fix a lot of those problems, even just one, yet he doesn't. Is he sleeping on the job or is this some kind of 80s tough love stuff? I've never told anyone what to believe, or that they had to believe as I say. I've just innocently listed my opinions just like you do. And it's funny that you say you "can't" judge me. You do it all the time. God knows you've been a-fibbin! Wrong because a book says so, without any evidence or proof to back up the omipotent and ever powerful claim the whole thing is based on. It's all belief. You believe in the bible and the morals it says, just like I believe in the morals that I have. We are one and the same here, in that we each believe in our own morals. I just don't need to tell myself that mine are automatically right because a book said so. And if religion is not about God, then how do you know he doesn't like killing? Abortion? Theft? How do you know? Did you...*gasp*..make it up? I don't just feel sorry for you, but for all those you would condemn in the name of your subjective interpretation of God(remember, religions aren't about God and God hates them anyway, so you have no basis for any claims about what God likes and what he doesn't. Unless, God has spoken to you. Has that occurred? Has he shared his worldview with you?)
Oh he will have the last word…don't think He won't. And then you will look back and regret what you said and did.
