'Nazi Grandma' sent to jail again for Holocaust denial

Fantastic! Straight out of the Hasbara Phrase Trunk.
#1 to #18 sounds like advice given to you to use to refute any arguments from critics.
Thanks for letting us in on your secret advisers.

I like the "goosestepping" expression! Reminds me of the farm's barnyard...

 

As much as you'd like to weasel out of an honest & civil debate & evade the truth, you initiated this exchange by claiming that all my previously posted Facts & assertions have been "....blown to smithereens".

Now, you're simply exposing the fact that you can't support your own claim & posting plagiarized & slanderous snippets from some sort of lowly "Dummies Guide on How To Evade Honest Debate" for Brainwashed Holocaustians.

Either support your claim that my previously posted facts & assertions have "been blown to smithereens" or quit harassing me with plagiarized B.S. from a source you're too ashamed to Post.

 

No, I readily admit to the various "myth busting" and "fraud exposures" that litter the historical narrative. But does that in anyway detract from the core facts of the narrative? NOPE.

Now,

You want to claim that the holocaust is a jew hoax? That the gas chambers never existed? That there wasn't a "final solution"?

OK, then put up or shut up.

Start with your FORENSIC EVIDENCE that proves that there were no gas chambers.

Follow that up with your FORENSIC EVIDENCE that proves there are no mass ash graves at treblinka.

Follow that up with your FORENSIC EVIDENCE that jews were simply transported east and released to wander around in the wilderness.

Fact is you can't, all you can do is peddle the same old crap over and over again.

A source I'm too ashamed to post? I've been posting the link for a couple of years now, and you damn well know it.

But here it is since obviously your have a very short memory.

How to be a revisionist scholarl

 

I can hardly wait for Grau's answer!

 

Since "Jonsa" injected himself late into this debate with the claim that the facts & assertions I've already made have been "....blown to smithereens", I'm simply waiting for him to prove his claim which he obviously can't do.

I told him that if he wanted any responses from me, my only request was that he be "civil & honest" which he refuses to do.

Among the classic Hasbara Troll tactics is to demand that their opponent do all the work so they can dismiss facts that that debunk standard Holocaust® dogma because they come from "Holocaust® deniers" who, in the opinion of the Hasbara Troll, lack credibility because they are all either an: "Anti-semite, Neo- Nazi, White Supremacist, Holocaust denier" etc (# 14 below)

Please note that Hasbara Trolls like to "Frame the Debate" (i.e. #11 below) and: "Like to ask the questions, not answer questions" (#10 below)


“A Guide To HASBARA(*)TROLLS”
http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/jonathon-blakeley-a-guide-to-hasbara-trolls.html
EXCERPTS:

"Hasbara Troll attributes
1. Supreme point of view
2. The Hasbara troll knows best
3. Condescending & Patronising
4. Socialist (Smart and ‘caring&#8217
5. Do not have to be Jewish but Pro-Israel
6. Internet experts
7. Narcissistic
8. Provocative
9. Dis-ruptive
10. Like to ask the questions, not answer questions
11. Control freaks
12. Inflamed by anyone being critical of Israel
13. ‘Moral’ Guardians
14. Classic insults: Anti-semite, Neo- Nazi, White Supremacist, Holocaust denier
15. Adept with social networks well trained on IT

Troll techniques
1. Turn up randomly asking question about Israel, trying to engage/educate.
2. Guilt by association, they point to some source your are linked to as being anti-semitic or neo-nazi.
3. Opportunity to redeem - the offer chance to recant from your naive ways.
4. Smears and insults - if the top 3 fail then it's just character assassination.
5. Name bombing - using seo in blackhat ways to denounce and smear people. ie website with 37 mentions of someones name will prob get a Page one on Google.
6. Hasbara trolls generally follow the rules of social networks, because they want to continue to influence people and subvert open and free debate.


After repeated attempts to indoctrinate you, I mean educate you, the Hasbara trolls then resort to name bombing. Mentioning a persons name as many times as possible on social network sites to create negative report with strong SEO.

Basically using the internet to smear people to the maximum.

Hasbara Trolls are well organised and have links they point to to prove their flaky points.

Although the links these trolls cite are often from their own hasbara chums and the blogs they reference do not have original source material just second hand re-cobbled quotes."CONTINUED


When some one claims that your arguments have been "...blown to Smithereens", the next logical step is for them to show where & how they've been "blown to Smithereens"

 

Let me explain to you one of the most elementary rules of discourse:

- When you make a claim, it is incumbent upon to support your claim.

For the 6th time, you initiated this exchange by claiming that all my previously posted Facts & assertions have been "....blown to smithereens". Obviously, you can't or you would have by now

Fluency in the German language is mandatory for any informed discussion on the crumbling cult of Holocaustianity while whatever flakey "Dummies Guide to Holocaustian Hucksterism" (aka "How to be a revisionist scholar") is simply more twisted snippets of lowly slander made easy for the simple minded.

Additionally, my only request for discussing this issue with you is that you be both civil & honest. so far you have been neither.



I will only go so far as to address the following until you show where my arguments have been "...blown to smithereens":

1. I've never phrased "The Holocaust®" as a "jew hoax"

2. What you call "Gas Chambers" were de-fumigation chambers in which the cyanide-based pesticide / insecticide, Zyclon-B was used to kill disease carrying insects/parasites

3. “To the present day a written order by Hitler regarding the destruction of the European Jewish community has not been found, and, in all probability, this order was never given.”
- Walter Laqueur, Was niemand wissen wollte: Die Unterdruckung der Nachrichten uber Hitlers Endlösung (What Nobody Wanted to Know: The Suppression of News About Hitler’s “Final Solution&#8221, (Berlin-Vienna, 1981), p.190.============


"What became known in high Nazi circles as the Fuehrer Order on the Final Solution apparently was never committed to paper -- at least no copy of it has yet been unearthed in the captured Nazi documents. " William Shirer, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich (New York: Fawcett Crest, 1960), p.1256.


Now, show where my arguments have been "...blown to smithereens" if you want to proceed.

 

Thank you, dear Mr. Grau, for your extensive explanation.
Right from the beginning I recognized your superior knowledge of the Second WW period. For an American, who did not fight in that war, this is a rare phenomenon! You are one of a kind, Sir, and I am ever so grateful to you for standing up against all the slander and accusations directed at my forefathers.

May God bless you and grant you the freedom to always be able to speak your mind. As you know, the German people are not allowed to do that. Thousands are sitting in Jail for having spoken out. Whoever has invented that law to make doubting or simply trying to show a different version of the holocaust a crime, has to be an enemy of the German people AND has the power to make the German Government comply.

 

So you continue to evade.

so you don't use the term holohoax? I guess that cute little registered mark you use isn't indicative of your opinion. Can you be any more transparent?

Fluency in German is NOT mandatory to understand the historical narrative, since literally thousands of historians from virtually every nation on earth have studied the war and the holocaust and done multiple translations on every major document. Any major inconsistencies would have been the subject of much discussion.

No, the fumigation chambers were different structures entirely. And yes, zyklon-b was used for delousing. it works rather well killing humans and bugs, although with the bugs it takes a couple days exposure to kill them all, whereas with humans it takes about twenty minutes.
Do you have any evidence that the evidence for the gas chambers has been completely and totally fabricated by tens of thousands of people?

And only the most stupid of criminals would actually put an order to exterminate millions of people in writing. Yes its a fact that Hitler didn't officially issue an order to murder millions. He didn't need to after all, since he made his intentions crystal clear to his minions. I guess himmlers speeches are fakes as well? Or the Einsatzengruppen tallies on daily kill totals? Or the very odd disappearance of a couple million people supposedly dropped off somewhere in the east to wander the wilderness.


But by all means keep using inconsequential anecdotes, quack science, logical fallacy and of course the rest of the SOP of denialist argumentation. It amounts to a pathetic little ant hill inhabited by intellects of appropriate size.

 

Not reading an entire thread but I believe the holocaust was real simply due to the fact that their are too many eyewitnesses to say otherwise.

 

That's probably the most sane thing I've read on this thread.
I should point out that probably Grau is going to list a number of frauds and promptly say that all testaments are fake.

 

I'm still waiting for you to show where my previous arguments have been "blown to smithereens" as you claim.

The rest of your sarcastic & factually flawed post is simply your intellectually challenged opinion and standard, fraudulent Holocausitan dogma.

1. I use the "®" after Holocaust® to denote which one of the many "Holocausts" in which "6 Million Jews" are falsely claimed to be "starved", slaughtered etc etc [1]

2. Yes, fluency in the German language is essential for any accurate examination of the Holocaust® otherwise, you wouldn't know a fake German document from a real one.

For Example:
“The Wannsee Conference Protocol
Anatomy of a Fabrication”
http://codoh.com/library/document/934/

3.2.2. Linguistic Content
The Wannsee Conference Protocol is a treasure-trove of stylistic howlers which indicate that the authors of this paper were strongly influenced by the Anglo-Saxon i.e. British English language.

In the following we will identify only the most glaring of these blunders; many of them have been pointed out by all the authors consulted, so that a specific reference frequently does not apply.

The expressions "im Hinblick" ("considering",* 8 times), "im Zuge" ("in the course of", 5 times), "Lösung" ("solution", 23 times), "Fragen" ("questions", 17 times), "Problem" (6 times), "Bereinigen" ("to clarify", 4 times), frequently even more than once in the same sentence, bear witness to such a poor German vocabulary that one may assume the author to have been a foreigner.”
CONTINUED
("Hinblick", for example, can also mean "hindsight")

3. If Millions of people were gassed to death, why, then is there not ONE autopsy by a Western source showing gassing to have been the cause of death.

Meanwhile:
EXCERPT:
"This brings up the following questions:
• 1). Germans are meticulous record keepers but there is not one order for the construction of any gas chamber, no blueprint, no photo of any gas chamber or gassed victims.

• 2). There have been thousands of investigations of alleged Nazi war criminals, hundreds of trials, yet not one person was ever accused of being involved with actual gassings! No reliable witness on either side has ever come forward who saw a single person gassed—AND THERE ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE BEEN OVER 10,000 MASS GASSINGS!

• 3). Photos of bodies at Dachau and Belsen camps are of prisoners who died of typhus and malnutrition. Many Germans also died from typhus.

• 4). The Vatican and Red Cross interviewed thousands of freed camp inmates at the end of the War about alleged gas chambers. The response was always the same, "The detainees themselves have not spoken of them" (Red Cross document No. 9925, June 1946)." CONTINUED [2]

Additionally:

"What Experts say about the Holocaust"
Dr. Harry Elmer Barnes, eminent historian, author of 40 books, many of which are standard college texts, noted in Rampart Journal, 1967. "It has been demonstrated that there had been no systematic extermination in those camps."

Thies Christopherden, a German soldier and author wrote: "I was at Auschwitz! There was no gas chamber there."

Paul Rassiner, historian and anti-Nazi activist, who served a prison sentence in Buchenwald and the Dora camps stated in 1962. "The claim that a holocaust took place is an historic lie—the most tragic and most macabre imposture of all time."

Prof. Robert Faurisson, a specialist in Document Analysis at the University of Lyon. France, stated on April 25, 1979. "The holocaust lie, which is largely of Zionist origin, has made an enormous political and financial fraud possible, whose principal beneficiary is the state of Israel."CONTINUED[2]

Now, who would any reasonable person believe, these individuals or brainwashed & indoctrinated Holocaustians?


4. Re:
“To the present day a written order by Hitler regarding the destruction of the European Jewish community has not been found, and, in all probability, this order was never given.”
- Walter Laqueur, Was niemand wissen wollte: Die Unterdruckung der Nachrichten uber Hitlers Endlösung (What Nobody Wanted to Know: The Suppression of News About Hitler’s “Final Solution”), (Berlin-Vienna, 1981), p.190.============


One minute Holocaustians claim that their are "mountains of documents proving the Holocaust ® happened".
now, you claim the reverse:

How, exactly, did Hitler communicate his intentions to the tens of thousands (hundreds of thousands) of people needed to carry out a non existent "Final solution"? ...... telepathically?

No wonder P.T. Barnum got rich.

“There's a sucker born every minute”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There's_a_sucker_born_every_minute









[1] CONTENT: REPEATED N.Y. TIMES REPORTS OF “6 MILLION JEWS”
“SIX MILLION JEWS 1915-1938 HD”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dda-0Q_XUhk


[2] "The Problems of Mass Gassing"
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/wasthere.htm

 

So. Denialists. What do you think of this? Fake or not?

 

I just finished reading Grau's last post. It is full of links for everything!
How come you, dear Institute, have none?

P.S.
Grau's decisive link:
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/wasthere.htm

 

I had provided links in previous posts although for some unfathomable reason people don't seem to read them even if page numbers are provided.

I posted those two excerpts just to ask what people like you thought.
Are they fake or are they perhaps unrealiable ?

 

Sorry, don't expect me to chase down your links somewhere in the post. It is always good practice to list them again whenever you are referring to them.

 

You don't have to.
All you have to do is criticise them.

And considering how unreliable Grau's links are then its not necessarily a good practice as you say

 

Too ashamed to cite your flimsy "Source"?

I can only guess what sort of melodramatic fodder is

Do they still feature "Human Skin Lampshades", "Human Fat Soap", "Shrunken Heads" in your Holocaustian House of Horrors"?

All you've posted is Allied, War Time Propaganda about the "Evil Germans" [1]whose atrocities pale in comparison with the Allied / Soviet army of rapists, mass murderers & real War Criminals.

I doubt that there is one word

about a Real holocaust like Eisenhower's mass murder of over 1 million German POWs[2]

Nothing you've posted in your unsourced snippet refutes anything I've used to debunk all of your specious tripe all along.




[1] ANTI-GERMAN PROPAGANDA POSTERS ETC
http://www.google.com/search?q=anti...X&ved=0ahUKEwiB29KE8oLQAhWJ4yYKHWCrBsQQsAQIHw


[2] “Eisenhower’s Holocaust: His Slaughter Of 1.7 Million(*)Germans!”
https://socioecohistory.wordpress.c...locaust-his-slaughter-of-1-7-million-germans/

EXCERPT "One month before the end of World War II, General Eisenhower issued special orders concerning the treatment of German Prisoners and specific in the language of those orders was this statement,


–
“Prison enclosures are to provide no shelter or other comforts.”


–
Eisenhower biographer Stephen Ambrose, who was given access to the Eisenhower personal letters, states that he proposed to exterminate the entire German General Staff, thousands of people, after the war.(*)

He ordered that these Germans did not fall under the Geneva Rules, and were not to be fed or given any water or medical attention. The Swiss Red Cross was not to inspect the camps.

“…it is hard to escape the conclusion that Dwight Eisenhower was a war criminal of epic proportions. His (DEF) policy killed more Germans in peace than were killed in the European Theater.

This was deliberately and intentionally denied them. Many men died of gangrene from frostbite due to deliberate exposure. Local German people who offered these men food, were denied. General Patton’s Third Army was the only command in the European Theater to release significant numbers of Germans.

Eisenhower, in his personal letters, did not merely hate the Nazi Regime, and the few who imposed its will down from the top, but that HE HATED THE GERMAN PEOPLE AS A RACE. It was his personal intent to destroy as many of them as he could, and one way was to wipe out as many prisoners of war as possible.
"CONTINUED

 

No. I would prefer it if the content was criticised before the source was known.
Also you're not exactly innocent of that either

I have no idea as to what you are responding to.

No I haven't and we aren't comparing war crimes so I don't know why you're trying to move the goalposts so to speak.

Which never happened but ok.

Not once have you "debunked" a single item. What you have done is posted sources which are dubious, unfounded, vague, conjectural and often omit information.
Those aren't sources for a argument that is rooted in reality.
Also I wasn't addressing you specifically nor was I responding to a particular argument of yours.

The more you type the more I have to wonder which role you actually played when you mentioned your former occupation in a mental hospital.

 

In reference to your additional factually flawed opinion:

According to the Forum rules, you ARE required to give specific credit to whatever source you cite:

"LINKS....ETC

EXCERPT: "All quotes from other sources must be given appropriate credit, preferably with a link to the original article - long articles should be quoted from and/or summarized, not quoted in their entirety. Content copied from other sources must meet "fair use" guidelines, and violations of copyright will be deleted and subject to infraction. When quoting other posters, we ask that you use the site's "quote" function, so that other members can backtrack the conversation if they wish." CONTINUED


Simply because my links contain factual material that debunk your delusional Holocaustian opinions does not make them "unreliable".

Show where, as you claim in another of your frantic flurry of frivolous Posts, you have "proven" my sources to be unreliable.

You're acting like a spoiled adolescent in confusing your opinions with facts & refusing to follow Forum Guidelines.

 

It happened!!!! Why would the US apologize?

Read on here...

http://jamesbacque.blogspot.ca/2011/10/us-apology-for-crimes-against-german.html
----------------
Of course, they state a much lower number of murdered German POWs. The more realistic number is 1.7 million!

So dear Institute, are you still convinced it never happened?

 

Likewise.

A fine example of omitting information which is somewhat reminiscent of many of the links which you have posted.
Also you could have easily found out the source within a few minutes.
I asked people like you to criticise the content which you guys have clearly avoided doing so. I wonder why.

I almost wish they would

I did that for a good three or four pages.

No its not. That only pertains to thread creation.
I'm starting to notice a pattern in your writing.

Also that is a personal attack. Which is against the rules

 

Ok but you've got to prove that.

I don't know. I never even asked that.

Well there's not much to prove that this is the author in question even when you view the profile page.
But I'll provisionally assume it to be so.

Ok this doesn't actually prove anything but it does inform visitors of an event at the Marriott hotel in Washington DC

Why? Can you prove that figure?

Yes. Very much so.

 

....a hurricane went through here. Or was it a tornado?

 

Here you have the latest news from a reliable source!:


Published On: Tue, Nov 22nd, 2016 By Lilach Weissman

Nazi Writer Ursula Haverbeck Convicted for Holocaust Denial — Again

Ursula Haverbeck, a Holocaust denier and neo-Nazi, has been convicted and sentenced to prison by a German court for her ant-Semitic rhetoric. And yes, Holocaust denial is equivalent to anti-Semitism.

The 88 year old Haverbeck was sentenced to two and a half years. Hopefully she will die in prison.

According to a report in AP, Ursula Haverbeck was unapologetic for her behavior and defiant in a Verden district court Monday referring to the “Auschwitz lie.”

Ursula Haverback is unfortunately free as she appeals both this and two previous convictions for similar offenses.

You can watch Haverback spew her hate here if you dare:

http://jewishbusinessnews.com/2016/...verbeck-convicted-for-holocaust-denial-again/
----------
What hate is she spewing? I'd like to know.
The writer of this article is spewing hate!! To publicly wish her to die in jail is beyond words.
Shame on you, Israel!
Shame even more on the cowards in Germany!
What on Earth does it matter whether she is right or wrong? Whom is she harming? Most people are long dead.
Let us rather get on with life and make sure no more killing sprees will happen in Palestine, Syria, Libya and any other places in the world!

This hateful revenge thing will only breed more contempt and antisemitism.

For crying out loud ... she is an 88 year old woman!!! Hasn't killed anyone! She just has a different opinion about the so called holocaust!! How many other people are of the same opinion? I bet you, millions!
There are books and articles available to the public that share exactly her opinion.
For sure, she wasn't old enough to have personally witnessed the life in Auschwitz. She must have formed her opinion from what she heard and read in those many research papers and witness statements that clash with the official story.

In my understanding it is unlawful to still pick people of any age and hold them partly responsible for the holocaust, while Germany as a whole and for all Germans has admitted guilt, apologized and is paying hefty sums in reparations to the Jews wherever they are. Plus the Nazi officials were hanged along with many ordinary SS soldiers wherever they could get them.
A holocaust happened on the Rhein meadows after the war had ended. One million and sevenhundred-thousand German soldiers were deliberately starved to death!
Is that not good enough?
Did Germany get any reparations? Not that I know.
But Frau Haverbeck has to go to jail!!

 

"TYPHUSCAUST VS ' HOLOCAUST®"

Yes, I read that hate-filled & mean spirited article in "Jewish Business News" & the fervor of the abject hatred oozing from the opinionated article's author is as revealing as it is repulsive

- No! What desperate & hate-filled adherents to Holocaustianity call "Holocaust denial" is not anti Semitic except to racists who believe that only Jewish lives matter.

- Publicly wishing for anyone to die because of their their fact-based opinion is as demented as it is revealing.
I use the term "revealing because, if there were any truth to Holocaustian dogma then Holocaustians wouldn't care about the public sentiments of an 88 year old woman.
It is out of fear that others may look more closely at the outrageous & impossible claims made throughout Holocaust® dogma & see them for the lies they really are.

Among the questions you posed was:

Regrettably, the only study that addresses your question was conducted by the unreliably biased ADL. According to their study, roughly half of the world has never heard of what has become known as "The Holocaust"
Additionally, of the half of the planet that has heard of "The Holocaust":

"EXCERPT " ... a third of this group simply did not believe the Holocaust happened. To this group, the Holocaust is a lie, a myth, a hoax, a conspiracy by those with a political or ideological agenda.”CONTINUED

With the world population at about 7.5 Billion people, that would mean that, at least, just under 2 Billion people are "Holocaust® deniers"

This doesn't mean that they are "anti Semites" or "Jew haters", it only means that they have escaped the Holocaust® indoctrination that proliferates Western entertainment media, "News media & school systems, weighed both sides of the argument & found Holocaust® dogma to be as fraudulent as it has proven to be ever since the heady days of "Human Skin Lampshades", "Human fat soap", shrunken heads

For those who have paid attention, additional P.R. Frauds have been manufactured by a powerful, influential & wealthy Holocaust® Industry that further diminish the credibility of standard Holocaust® dogma.

What should be shocking to anyone who truly supports Free Speech is the fact that those who uncover the frauds, base extortion measures & fabricated "evidence" promulgated by this Holocaust Industry are imprisoned for doing so.

Therein lies the Raison d'être of Holocaust® denial Laws driven & promoted by the influential Holocaust® Industry:
- to discourage others from examining & exposing the innumerable, fraudulent & fragile myths that comprise standard Holocaust dogma


[1] “Did the Holocaust Exist?”
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/at...ary-number-of-people-say-no-or-not-even-aware




To this group, the Holocaust is a lie, a myth, a hoax, a conspiracy by those with a political or ideological agenda.”