Now that we're back in power, can we turn the tide on the war on marriage?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by 3link, Nov 6, 2014.

  1. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    Are you denying that we discriminate against people under a certain ARBITRARY age of consent?

    Or are you just being obtuse because you're incapable of addressing the issue?
     
  2. RedWolf

    RedWolf Well-Known Member

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    Are you denying that children aren't mature enough to handle and cope with certain situations or are you just comparing the two because you can't actually argue the facts that were presented to you?
     
  3. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    Yes I'm absolutely denying that. There's undeniable proof that some people under the age of 18 or 16 are mature enough to handle and cope with certain situations like sex and marriage.
     
  4. RedWolf

    RedWolf Well-Known Member

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    Then they're mature enough to understand that the majority of kids their age aren't and those laws are their to protect them.
     
  5. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    Prove that.
     
  6. RedWolf

    RedWolf Well-Known Member

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    Go into town and look around. That's the best link I can give you. Of course if you disagree you can prove to me otherwise.
     
  7. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    You have no basis for your position whatsoever. Anecdotal evidence is not justifiable in a court of law.

    What I'm TRYING to point out to you is that given a good lawyer and a disgusting pervert with a willing 13 year old... the age of consent laws wouldn't hold up in court.

    If you have a 13 year old there saying that this is unconstitutional that they are not allowed to have the same rights and privileges as every other American and that the Civil Rights Act along with the 14th amendment restricts discrimination based upon age. He'll win.
     
  8. RedWolf

    RedWolf Well-Known Member

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    Do you disagree with the assertion that most kids under 18 aren't mature enough?

    The laws are their to protect them. Why do you want to take that away and put them in danger?
     
  9. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    *I* don't. I feel as though we SHOULD be able to discriminate against certain groups for their own protection and the safety of everybody else. One of those groups is children and another is homosexuals. But I'm not the one claiming that ALL Americans should have equal rights either.

    But just like the homosexuals do with me, they claim that they don't need me to protect them or society.... the "minor attracted person" and his 13 year old boyfriend are going to argue that they don't need you to protect them or society and that your beliefs are just grounded in bigotry not objective evidence.
     
  10. RedWolf

    RedWolf Well-Known Member

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    Their's a difference between discriminating and protecting. When those kids get old enough they get enjoy the same rights as everyone else. However you seem to think that denying two women who are wanting to marry and enjoy the same rights as heterosexual couples do is American. You're free to back that up with evidence too.
     
  11. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed Banned

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    No, so much wrong.But I won't get into too much of that. Let's talk the better strategy for you Republicans.

    Your priority should not at all be social issues, but those of economic and foreign policy. You blew any confidence that non-party affiliated folk like me had with you in the Bush Iraq and bailout debacles. But yours isn't the only party we have no confidence in, as this round of elections displayed(and I suspect the Presidential will as well).

    You have been given a chance to redeem yourselves, I would suggest you take it. I have very little confidence that your party will, but if such changes in a fundamentally flawed party occurs it has to be driven by their mobs of loyal denizens.
     
  12. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    And what is that difference? You claim to be protecting those people and the rest of society. I claim to be protecting those homosexuals and the rest of society.

    And BTW, I've backed that up time and time again.
     
  13. AKR

    AKR New Member

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    THIS is your first priority? Your first thought is, "gee, now we can REALLY opress gay people!" Your focus isn't jobs, or education, or healthcare, or protecting the environment, or ANYTHING THAT ACTUALLY MATTERS? It's trying to drag the country backwards, away from equal rights? :thumbsdown:
     
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  14. RedWolf

    RedWolf Well-Known Member

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    No you didn't. You said they don't contribute to society as a couple and it has been pointed out to you that they can even adopt, to which you responded was them gaming the system(by the way, prove it). No one is being harmed or endangered by two people of the same sex coming together in marriage.

    Are you this outraged when two people of different ethnicities marry? Why or why not? And what gives you the right to decide for others what they can or can't do between consenting adults? Are you so arrogant that you think you know what's best even though it doesn't effect you in the least bit? Where do you end it? Who do you prevent from enjoying their rights next? Do you decide based on a whim or your own biased opinion? How do you justify unequal treatment as American? Why does your own bigotry get to be pushed on someone else?

    You can act like me defending the laws that are in place to protect children is me denying them equal rights but the fact is their is a difference between children and adults and you know this. So why don't you quit trying to compare the issues as if they're the same and stick to the facts that you would rather keep fellow citizens from enjoying the same rights as you do simply because you don't like or agree with them.
     
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  15. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    That's only ONE of the reasons. I also stated that the other reasons are that they are harming themselves by their absurd amount of HIV and they're passing those diseases along to the rest of society.

    Why would I care about different ethnicities marrying? And it DOES effect me. As I told the other individual, what two adults do in the privacy of their own homes is none of my business. However, when those two adults start demanding that I subsidize their behavior with the money that I EARNED and that I use to provide for myself and my family then it DOES become my business. And if you or anybody else don't (*)(*)(*)(*)ing like that you can stop demanding MY money.

    And just because you don't like my justifications doesn't mean that they're based upon a whim or irrational. It simply means you reject them because you're already vested in your position and NOTHING... even statistics that show homosexuals are 5-15x more likely to molest children will dissuade you from that position. Which is fine, but that's exactly how someone who supports minor-attracted persons would act.

    No because see YOU want to make part of your argument about "equality" and "equal rights". But you don't ACTUALLY believe that. You ONLY believe that insofar as it's beneficial to your position. When you encounter a behavior that you consider to be vile or reasonable to discriminate against (like minor-attracted persons), all of a sudden equality and equal rights goes out the window.

    And if you're going to ONLY apply equality and equal rights when it's beneficial to your cause but not for others that you find vile then I'm going to call you on it because you don't actually believe it, you're just using it as propaganda to gain support for your cause... and that's EXCEEDINGLY dishonest.
     
  16. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    He's a troll.. he doesn't actually believe what he's stating. He's actually in favor of gay marriage.

    Not that it matters, the Supreme Court is going to rule in favor of State rights anyway.
     
  17. RedWolf

    RedWolf Well-Known Member

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    Is every single one of them HIV positive? You think denying equal rights is preventing the spread of disease? What about two women who are getting married, how do they contract it

    How many heterosexual couples are they subsidizing with their money? Why is it only a one way road?

    Wrong. You have no argument so you make up a false equivalency. You can pretend all you want but your off topic remarks about kids being discriminated against have no basis in reality and you're not going to convince anyone otherwise. When you don't have actual facts to rely on then I suppose it's best to make something up and act like that's what's going on.

    The fact is is you're bigoted against homosexuals so you would rather deny them any of the same rights. You have no legal or even moral justification of this. This is just you being arrogant, selfish, and prejudiced. Two men or two women getting married and living in the backwoods of Oregon doesn't effect or hurt you in shape or form. But you pretending that every homosexual is polyamorous and has HIV is dishonest. But keep pretending that you're championing for them but no one is fooled except maybe you.
     
  18. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    This country was stolen by white christians.

    ( and yes I have American Indian blood in me. )
     
  19. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    Really, with 'Republicans' it IS primarily about power, control and money (perhaps in that order, but not necessarily).

    And while most high stakes players and base members within the Republican Party won't admit that openly (as it is politically-inconvenient)... their very attitudes, words and approaches reveal it to all who would observe. And not that a sizable number of Democrats aren't similar in that way, but that they are relatively fewer in number and do not 'steer' that party (in that manner) nearly as much. The primary reason I see more of a controlling attitude and agenda coming from the Republicans, is because they embrace/support virtually any expression of social conservatism which occurs in this society; ready to limit many freedoms and liberties at the mention of 'morality' .

    I think many more liberal Americans would flock to the Republican Party, if not for it taking on the role of enforcer of religious beliefs (or at the very least, showing an explicit bias toward creating and promoting laws based upon religious beliefs). That is what most Liberals (including myself) reject most about Republicans. I might have even stomached the 'economic' vision of Republicans (years ago), if not for their extremely compulsory, hive-like approach to religion and morality. In truth, human beings crave more freedom/liberty than that which most American Conservatives tend to offer/support; that's essentially what America should be about, in my view.

    The greatest war I see on "marriage" and the deepest essence of what it stands for, is being waged by HETEROSEXUALS and their taking the institution for granted. The ludicrous levels of divorce, the overly-casual attitudes about the seriousness of the 'bond' (solemn vows) and more recently, the attempted SCAPEGOATING of homosexual people as a vehicle to somehow pass BLAME for the failures of "traditional marriage" onto the same.

    In truth, those going after "homosexuals" and the rights or liberties they are seeking, should be far more introspective about things and clean up their own house. I suspect they will see such a marked 'improvement' in the state of traditional marriage as a whole, that the ludicrousness of pursuing/opposing those wanting a gay marriage would become starkly evident to those HYPOCRITES oppressing homosexual people.

    I'm not legal expert/analyst, but I think that would take a Constitutional Amendment. Good luck with that.

    Considering the frantically zealous manner in which many Conservatives (often) scream for adherence to the Constitution of the United States of America... they seem relatively EAGER when it's convenient to them, to walk around (or step upon) the same. :(

    I want my country back... but not in the condition that many radicals on the Right prefer to leave it in. And that is why I and scores of other more reasonable Americans WILL fight the Right. (Bet on it.)
     
  20. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    And the amount of BLOOD shed, should NEVER be overlooked again.

    What?! Do we want a repeat of past evils? God forbid!
     
  21. volksfan

    volksfan New Member

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    I've read the bible and what did Jesus say about same sex marriage: "Don't Judge others" and "Everyone is welcome in my house."
     
  22. upside-down cake

    upside-down cake Well-Known Member

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    Holy wow, lol.

    That sounds just like what happened to Blacks and the Civil War.

    One President gave them their freedom...somewhat. Then, after he was assassinated (rather than impeached), his successor went in and started okaying every type of legal reversal of that act that they could think of.

    I guess history does move in spirals...
     
  23. stjames1_53

    stjames1_53 Banned

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  24. stjames1_53

    stjames1_53 Banned

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    and slay the abominations as they sleep...miss that part?
     
  25. volksfan

    volksfan New Member

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    You're mistaken. Jesus never said that marriage is between a man and a woman. St. Paul did but he also said not to place stumbling blocks before your brothers.

    - - - Updated - - -

    verse please
     

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