On the elimination of the Federal Income Tax.

Also, Jefferson was not one of the drafters of the 1787 constitution. He wasn't even in the States at the time.

 

AGAIN, the definition of "enumerated" is below:

e•nu•mer•ate
[ih-noo-muh-reyt, ih-nyoo-]

verb (used with object), e•nu•mer•at•ed, e•nu•mer•at•ing.

1. to mention separately as if in counting; name one by one; specify, as in a list: Let me enumerate the many flaws in your hypothesis.

2. to ascertain the number of; count.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/enumerated?s=t​

Tell Jefferson he had no idea what he was talking about. Tell him (and the rest of the Founders) Democrats have a better way. Tell them all that Democrats have the POWER to change the accepted meaning of words because they WILL it to be true. Most would believe such claims to be delusional, but we are talking about the claims of the Progressive Left are we not?

 

Technically, it is in is in list format. The list has two items:
1. to pay the debts
2. and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States

But not the same format as, say, the lists of Congress' powers.

And again, Jefferson was not involved in drafting our constitution. He was abroad at the time. So citing him gives no weight to your argument.

 

Well James Madison is often referred to as the "Father of the Constitution," and wrote the following in Federalist 44. Bold for emphasis.

The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government, are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

The operations of the federal government will be most extensive and important in times of war and danger; those of the State governments, in times of peace and security. As the former periods will probably bear a small proportion to the latter, the State governments will here enjoy another advantage over the federal government. The more adequate, indeed, the federal powers may be rendered to the national defense, the less frequent will be those scenes of danger which might favor their ascendancy over the governments of the particular States.​

The Progressive Left is just factually inaccurate. They have to be so as the truth will end them!

 

Thank you for pointing out that our federal Congress is only delegated the general power to Tax, to Provide for the general powers to provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States.

Not, anything and everything as the right would have us believe.

 

No, what you describe is in "paragraph" form. The list is below what you write which was referred to by Founders and all legitimate historians as the "enumerated powers." You are arguing that the Federal Government could do just "anything" to provide for the General Welfare. OK, I'll bite... Just why was a Constitutional Amendment needed to ban the manufacture and transportation of Alcohol? Why couldn't the government just enact Prohibition under the "General Welfare" provision?

Of course the answer is there were no Enumerated Powers to do so!

Why are there Enumerated Powers to build and maintain the military? Can't that occur under the "General Welfare" non enumerated clause? There are such enumerated clauses to build and maintain a military making such activity legal and legitimate. No such powers exist for the Democrat Welfare State only allowed after Democrat FDR threatened the Supreme Court so they would stop ruling his "New Deal" unconstitutional in 1937 making the Democrat party platform illegitimate and illegal!

 

Article 1, Section 8, clause 1 reads as follows: (Bold for emphasis)

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;​

As you can see the clause enumerates (by the actual definition of the word, not the Progressive Propaganda definition) no powers. Your example enumerates the powers because YOU, not the Founders, but YOU put them in a list making them "enumerated." The powers are not "enumerated" because YOU put them in a list…

 

Yes, Jefferson really didn't know what was happening in America at the time, he's less reliable than, say, 3link.

I've listed the entirety of section 8 below. It's pretty clear that provide for the general defense/common welfare isn't an enumerated power, it's... well, exactly as Jefferson said in the quoted text from Swamp Music's post. It'd be pretty stupid and redundant if it's as you wish to interpret it.

 

Every Thing in Article 1, Section 8 is enumerated as part of supreme law of the land.

 

It's not much different than if you gave your kid money and said…:

"go get food and schools supplies;
get paper;
get notebooks;
get pens;
get bread;
get milk;
get chicken…"​

Quit spreading the Lies of the Left! Quit spreading Leftist Propaganda (needed for the survival of the Demarcate party! )

 

No, it's not.

^wow, I just made an argument as thorough as yours! Now, if you disagree with a point, give some rationale. Simply stating your disagreement proves nothing.

 

Every Thing in Article 1, Section 8 is specifically enumerated after every Thing in Article 1, Section 7..

 

Article 1, Section 8 is one complete sentence, and therefore one complete thought. It states the government can tax to fund certain powers, and then lists legitimate powers which may be funded through the collection of tax money. Spin all you like, but historically your position is wrong. Are you mistaken, or do you have an agenda of propagating Democrat Propaganda?

 

I thought you claimed to subscribe to a list? Article 1, Section 8 is specifically enumerated after Article 1, Section 7 in that "list".

 

You have no legitimate points to make yet you refuse to acknowledge defeat. Article 1, Section 7 lists no "powers." In the many sentences of Article 1, Section 7 you will not find the word "power." Article 1, Section 8 is different as it comprises only 1 sentence; a complete thought, and lists "powers" of Congress. Quit using sophomoric arguments. Quit spreading the Lies of the Left!

 

If, as you claim, that only a list is a valid "enumeration" then, Article 1, Section 1 is followed by Article 1, Section 2, and so on, in that list that specifically enumerates our supreme law of the land.

 

OK what "powers" are enumerated in Article 1, Section 1? Defend you ridiculous claim...

My guess is you don't even know what is in the Constitution.

 

His objective was to provide insight on the framer's intent - not "what was happening in America at the time" or whatever the hell that is supposed to mean.

It's patently stupid to say that it isn't a numerated power when it's within one of the numerated powers.

 

Where am I arguing that the government can do anything for General Welfare? Are you so desperate that you've resorted to building strawmen? I'm simply saying that congress has the power to lay taxes and provide for the general welfare. The fact that they aren't listed on separate lines doesn't mean they are not enumerated. That's a ridiculous argument. Even Scalia would agree that "provide for the general welfare" is enumerated. However, he would probably interpret that power very narrowly.

Your criticism of FDR is credited, but the SCOTUS at the time was just playing politics. There was plenty of precedent to support finding in favor of the President. Pre-New Deal Commerce Clause case law went both ways. But SCOTUS at the time just didn't like the President. They were the real abusers.

 

We are discussing what Congress has the "power" to do. Those "powers" are enumerated in Article 1, Section 8 and the Amendments. The argument that all articles in the Constitution are "enumerated" is ridiculous since not all articles discuss the Powers of Congress. The Lying Left will grasp at any straws to make their opinion appear to be legitimate and not Treasonous.

in Article 1, Section 8 the powers must be enumerated, otherwise there would have been no need to pass the Eighteenth Amendment for Prohibition because it could have been done under the general welfare clause. Also, there would be no need to list ANY powers to build and maintain a military as that, too could have been under the general welfare clause. Prohibition nor the military could not have been developed and maintained without enumerated powers to do so. Therefore Obamacare and the rest of the Democrat Welfare State is wholly unconstitutional. Taxation to fund such high cost Democrat gifts is a crime against the American people!

 

Let me get this straight. If in a list of enumerated powers, one of the items on that list contains 2 powers, those 2 powers are not enumerated? Do you have any idea just how ridiculous you sound?

 

And one of those enumerated powers is the power to tax in order to provide for the general welfare.

For being a member of the "honest" right, you sure resort to a lot of straw men . Who is saying that ALL ARTICLES of the constitution are enumerated powers? Nobody. Moving on.

Treasonous? So anyone who disagrees with your interpretation of the constitution is a traitor? How do you like the straw men when they're directed at you?

The general welfare clause merely qualifies the taxing power. It isn't an independent power. However, it is an enumerated power.

 

It's not within, it's a preamble to. What is stupid is thinking that the Founders gave a long list of powers that fall under "provide for the general welfare and common defense" when you contend that the quoted phrase IS an enumerated power, which every single one of the enumerated powers falls under. This would be like telling someone:

"You can spend your money any way in which you please. You can spend it:

to buy a house
to buy groceries
to buy a car
to buy books
to buy an education..."

It's stupid to think that you're saying the person is ALLOWED to spend their money on the listed items if you also say that they can spend it on anything they want.

 

You're saying the taxing power isn't one of the numerated powers? The taxing power isn't in the preamble.

 

Democrats needed an amendment for the income tax, so no not any tax falls under that which your write. There are limits that Democrats ignore!