Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of their right to join the union of their cho

Well, why don't you guys try to unionize those Asian sweatshops where Obama's free trade agreements sent American jobs?

 

You don't know the difference between activity (deeds) and words? I'm sure any person is free to talk about objection to unions. It is not conceivable that speech of such things would be banned. And nobody suggested it was. But a business is not allowed to deny unions from organizing. Calling that "a ban on free speech" is what most reasonable people call "spin".

Do you know that my characterization was precise and complete? Do you know that the reality is not that businesses without unions exist and workers take their chances there as in any employment situation lacking a union?

In the US employees commonly negotiate their pay with their employer. Why would anyone oppose having the greater advantage of a union negotiating negotiating their wage? It's like our own ability to negotiate lower drug prices with drug manufacturers versus bigger blocs of patients having the clout of Medicare or AARP behind them being able negotiate lower drug prices as an organization.

Your objection to unions is ridiculous.

 

You mean like when Boeing in South Carolina voted no to a union by a very large number?

 

The classic excuse of "progressives" when they lose - the people were stupid and duped. Progs just can't get it through their heads that people are rejecting "progressivism", people see it as the failure it is.

 

It's ridiculous but I approve of majority votes rejecting a union if that's what happens. I don't know the details of the opinions and facts, but it looks to me like the Machinist Union needs to clean up its act if workers reject it that strongly. That area has the lowest rate of unionization in the country though.

 

It could also be a result of successful anti-union campaigns conducted by companies who hire law firms to assist in breaking organizing drives. That's big business for many labor law firms.

 

Yup. Could be. Maybe we need laws banning anti-union activity.

 

Todays Detroit brought to you by democrats and unions.

How does the OP explain that??????

 

The truth of the matter is, like anything, it's how it's viewed.

Were I to want to drive, or work in the warehouse for say PepsiCo, here in Wisconsin, Prior to our becoming a Right to Work state, I would be required to join the Teamsters union, (Local 200) after The 90 day trial period to do so.

The only exceptions are management of course.

 

In the US employees commonly negotiate their pay with their employer. Why would anyone oppose having the greater advantage of a union negotiating negotiating their wage

Uhm because some one/people are trying to abuse it?

 

Only losers need Union's, let me rephrase that only losers in life need Union's..

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AIM is terrible, as is the AFL-CIO.

 

Yet the American middle class and the unions had their hay day at the same time and the decline of the middle class coincided with the decline of unions. These are cause and effect. Unions fought for workers to share in the profits. Unions did not let companies leave the US, expand to other countries sure but not leave the US without consequences. Reagan is the best thing to ever happen to the Chinese economy.
The uber rich have convinced many that their growing wealth and profits can only be sustained by the rest of America racing to the bottom and living like Chinese laborers. This is the mentality that gave us the robber barons of the turn of the last century which forced labor to unionize. It will again when they push just a little too far.
Eventually people will figure it out that it's non-union businesses relocating jobs to China, not so union ones. Also, they'll notice that union workers are paid better, according to the BLS $17,000 a year more in $2014.
Say no to the race to the bottom, make China try and race us to the top. In the 60s people said cheap Japanese labor would kill the American worker. Instead the Japanese worker demanded to be treated like the American worker. The Chinese workers will also tire of making things that they can not buy.

 

As much as I'd love to see that I realize we need to have balance when it comes to organized labor since that's when it works best for everyone involved. Perhaps some sort of fairness doctrine so when the company conducts mandatory meetings, the union gets to conduct them as well without interference from the company. Just sayin'.

 

Even in non-right-to-work states you cannot be compelled as a condition of employment to join and yes, management, some clerical and security are exempt from having the right to join a union.

 

You said "and they have laws banning anti-union activities and laws. "
So they ban free speech? What if I want to speak out against the union or forming one?

So you can work at a plant tthat has a union and not join the union?

You said there was collective bargaining does that include wages or not. I go by what you post.

 

But can require you to pay dues or be fired.

 

Me: "In the US employees commonly negotiate their pay with their employer. Why would anyone oppose having the greater advantage of a union negotiating negotiating their wage?"

What "people" are trying to abuse "what"? Do you seek safety in generalities?

 

Well you misunderstood my intention. I was simply indicating a difference between ways different countries deal with minimum wages. There are differences and some allow unions more play. If you want more detail, go find it and let me know what you find.

 

I'll take that as the sentiment of an anti-union person ..... i.e, essentially worthless.

 

Well great! Then we need more pro-union, pro-worker laws because the huge, vast majority of our laws and supporting organizations are pro-business. That's because we have a capitalist economy of course. Time to balance it out!

 

I definitely concur with you on this. We need to restore some of the pro-union laws that have been cast aside over the decades due to the influence of the US Chamber of Commerce and other corporate business interests.

 

Why would they be DESPERATE in these GLORIOUS Oberrynomic times? You see how the leftist fallacies continually escape their programmed agenda! It really is true, you let a room full of Liberals discuss anything and they will quickly prove each other liars

 

Do you ignore reality?


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Obama or Bush or Trump, it doesn't matter regarding current conditions and where we are going. EVERY president and congressman is dedicated to capitalism, and capitalism is in decay. It is creating our economic, cultural, and political problems and it cannot offer real and lasting solutions because its solutions preserve the very force that is creating the problems: capitalism... private ownership, private profit, and private control of the economy for private benefit. And in a structure that defies resolution of problems, people will become desperate. PeppermintTwist is correct. You want to make it and keep it a partisan argument of party against party because that offers you the greatest safety and opportunity to argue on and on and on and on.

No fact there. That is pure partisan opinion. Don't you yet realize that a counterpoint to that is as easy as yours and neither offers any hope for resolution?