Open the flood gates against the bible and my faith

In my life I have always been told to pick and chose my fights and be an easy going guy which I am but I have chosen my fight and that is my religion.

People alway talk about unshakeable faith and making a stand for their faith. But I am here to do so. So I know there are so man challenges out there against the bible and Christianity so I invite all challenges to the bible and my faith.

I am not a biblical scholar or priest or anything to that nature. I haven't even take a college class on theology except for the basic requirements.

I am simply a 26 year old man with a degree in history and an MBA and great faith built through years of overcoming adversity like cancer and a stroke. As a man of faith I stand before you ready to defend it.

Right now I can just see all you atheist out there just waiting fire away and I would like to keep this thread from turning into a cluster f**k of hate comments for as long as possible so let me lay down some rules.

1. Let's keep this civilized and leave insults and emotion at the door.
2. Being that it is me vs the entire forum please try and keep this at an even pace and give me time to answer the questions and challenges.
3. The questions I will answer are ones that pertain to my personal Christian beliefs in god and the holy trinity and the bible.
4. The questions and challanges I will not answer are ones that pertain to crooked actions men do in the name of religion and my religion as it pertains to political matters.
5. When things reach their end point let's move on and not return but just keep moving to the next question.

With that said release the hounds!

 

As long as you understand that the actual stories in your Bible(s) are not meant to be taken literally, there is really nothing to discuss. Trying to prove/disprove a God entity is an exercise in futility.

 

I don't see a lot of point in challenging your faith in general (not least because it is faith). Only where specific beliefs are potentially disruptive or harmful would they need to be challenged (and that's independent of any given religion).

So, it would really depend on what you actually believe and, more significantly, what you think you and others should do (or not do) in relation to that. Since you seem to want them though, and because it supports challenges to beliefs that do need to be, one question I know can be asked without knowing your specific beliefs; Why do you think your beliefs are so different (even to the point of direct contradiction) to many others who base them on the same scripture, theology and history? What makes any one specific interpretation worthy of your faith?

 

where you born in a predominantly christian country, and exposed to Christianity as truth (rather than as one religion of many) as a child via parents, grandparents, friends, school, etc? or were you perhaps indoctrinated as a child by actively believing parents?

and what other faiths did you explore indepth before deciding christianity was for you? did you at any time, marvel over the sheer luck and coincidence of having chosen the very faith (out of literally thousands) as that of your forebears?

 

Here's my suggestions:
1. Try to answer this question: "Is it more moral to throw Jews into ovens, or into a “lake of fire”?"
2. .....then realize the Bible is worse than Hitler.
3. .....then leave Christianity.


I do NOT believe I am violating your rule #1 in the OP, because it's not an insult to just point out the truth to you regarding the morality of the Bible....and I also think that after trying to answer my question in my #1 above that my #3 above is actually the best solution. If I didn't care about people I wouldn't bother showing them a better way, I'd probably just be out getting drunk or something hedonistic in nature.

 

Question #2: why do you feel a need to jettison science, reason, and common sense to latch on to an ancient belief system that actually believes in unicorns, dragons, talking donkeys (Numbers 22:28 ), a magic talking snake, giants, people living 950 years, and a magic invisible talking dead guy?

Question #3: what would, hypothetically, have to have been in the bible for you to NOT believe it was actually real and from "god"? A person who can not answer this question is arguably brain-washed. I'm talking about what would be the least bad thing, hypothetically, that would (just say) have to be in the Bible for you to not be a Christian. Genocide? Instructions on how to beat a slave? Killing innocent babies? Just what?

Question #4: why haven't you checked out MSH (Dawkins/Harris)? Why?

 

Question #5: why is your god not capable of providing more jury-level of proof of his existence than Krishna is? Than Bigfoot is? Than Zeus is? Than Apollo is? Do you feel that you deserve more respect from a god that that? I do, but maybe I expect too much from a supposed all-knowing, all-caring, all-powerful creator of the entire universe.

 

Doesn't it depend on EXACTLY HOW you "believe in the Bible"?

For instance...are you a Young Earth Creationist who believes the Earth, even the Universe is only 6000 years old? If so, is it an "attack on your faith" to question that with science and logic?

Or....do you accept and condone where God ordered murder, rape, slavery, genocide, and infanticide in the Old Testament....as you accept the portrayal of God in the New Testament...and see no contradiction? Is debating that an "attack"?

 

1. The Bible contradicts itself hundreds of time, how could it be the work of an omnipotent being?
2. Mistranslations are perpetrated today, and with no obvious desire to change them other then by Biblical scholars, why is the mainstream ignoring these?
3. How does the mistranlation of Mary being young (she was not a virgin) change the dogma? Jesus was not born of a virgin, so how would the birth be miraculous?
4. The Gospels contradict each other, which one is the right one?
5. Jesus claims not to be god in Mark, Matthew, and Luke, yet claims to be god in John, which claim is correct?
6. God know what people are going to do before they do it, therefore there is no action we take or word we mutter that is a surprise to god, and therefore no free will. What is the point of god creating us if we are to be willess robots with predetermined actions? Why create a person and torture them for all eternity for a thought crime they were entirely incapable of avoiding?
7. How can a being by Omnibelevolent while at the same time torturing people for a thought crime they are incapable of avoiding?
8. Why is Genesis out of order?
9. Why are there scientific inaccuracies in the Bible?
10. What exactly was the point of Jesus? Why would need to God send Himself down to Earth to sacrifice Himself to Himself to convince Himself to change the rules He Himself set into place, knowing before he sent Himself to Sacrifice Himself to Himself that he would need to sacrifice Himself to Himself to convince Himself to change the rules He Himself set into place knowing that He would be required to do these things.
11. Why put a tree in the Garden of Eden, and tell Adam and Eve (who had no awareness or understanding of right and wrong) not to eat from the tree? Why not put the tree on the moon? Why create the tree at all?
12. How are Adam and Eve responsible for their actions if there were unaware of right and wrong? Why would god put the tree in the garden while knowing beforehand they would eat from the tree?
13. Being that all actions are pre-determined, does that not make god responsible for every evil action in the world?
14. How does free will exist if all of our actions are pre-determined?
15. How did Noah fit all those animals on the ark? How did he fetch polar bears? Anglerfish? What about the dinosaurs?
16. How old is the earth?

 

Do you think differently when considering religious matters than when considering other matters? Whatever reason you would claim to have to believe, what is it, and would you accept a similar argument for anything mundane?

 

Show us how each and everyone of these 493 Biblical contradictions is not really a contradiction: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html
You'll need to take a year off from work to find the time to address them all, of course, but don't let that stop you.

I predict that as you learn more about Christianity you'll leave it like I did.

 

One cannot debate "faith". a person either possesses it or doesn't. You possess it and from your OP it seems it provides you with comfort and assistance.

the only "argument" I would have with you is that your experiences with cancer and stroke were not resolved by a god, but by science and dedicated people who have devoted their lives to medicine.

 

Yes, crediting an invisible unproven man in they sky devalues the back-breaking efforts put in by scientists and medical professionals.

 

you are not violating number 1 thanks for being cautious

however the problem is you question is too vague. as it says nothing about these people other than they are Jewish there fore i can not answer.

 

Moral Jews, Jews who are very moral by most all definitions, is it more moral to throw them into ovens like the Nazis did, or to throw them into a "lake of fire" like the Bible says? There only "crime" is being Jewish.

 

I would suggest almost by definition that one cannot successfully challenge a belief based on faith. And if one has true faith why would you really need to reinforce it by asking it to be challenged. it is almost the equivalent of asking God to make a miracle to prove God's Existance.

 

Another question: if a family member decides to pick another belief system before they die, so they are going to suffer brutal torture forever.....would you PREFER to see god/Jesus change their policy about torturing non-believers?

 

I was Born in a christian house hold
I went to a Jewish preschool

spent 2 years in a catholic grade school then transferred to a private school with no religious affiliation.

I was exposed to Catholicism as truth at a young age however when I grew older my father and I have looked at other religions as it relates to Christianity. We have read allot of Thomas Merton who talks about focusing on the similarities of religions and seeing that when broken down to the core they are not that different. the main other one I looked at was zen.

I do not think of it as luck. your last question is one i currently struggle with. Through my discernment it makes me honestly think there is more than one correct answer. I feel that we trust God and he will lead us down the right path and there is more than one correct path and the path that works for me may not work for some man in Africa. but it falls back to the last question that when broken down to their core the religions are quite similar. However i admit that is one issue I am uncertain on. What i am certain on is my path is Christianity and it is does wonders for me.

 

Wow, what are the odds of having the same religion as an adult as the one you were born into!?


(Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

 

fist to answer your 4th question i have. That is a topic for another discussion.

2 and 3: My faith does not live and die by the bible. My faith is rooted in the NT but it can not be dispelled by something in the OT. Criticizing the NT with the OT is like criticizing an opponent in a debate for crapping his pants when he was 5. I take the bible as a historical text of writing inspired by God and encounters with God and when you read it you see the evolution of mans understanding of God and under scrutiny there are truths scattered in it. The writing are relative to the nature of the human state and culture at the time they were written but the wisdom is eternal.

for example lets look at the first passage in the bible
In the beginning when God created the Heavens and the earth
think of how long it took science to come up with definition of what the universe entails as time space and matter
then look at the first passage of the bible we had it figured out long before science
The beginning (time) Heavens (space) Earth (matter)

Other issues such as the big bang were apparent to theists before they were apparent to science who for the longest time believed in a steady state universe.

 

My belife in God is based in faith. I do not know his nature however i do know God is the creator i believe in the holy trinity and I do know what he expects

 

So you admit that god got stuff wrong - in the OT?

 

Then you believe in Noah's Ark (or did the Bible get that wrong?).....so as per Wolverine's question, how did the kangaroos get to the boat, and how did they get BACK to Australia after the boat supposedly landed in the Middle East? If you don't know the answer, then you might want to not believe in a story like the Bible until you can indeed figure that answer out.

[ crank wants this question answered every time she's sees a 'roo down under ]

 

The WISDOM that we don't love our fellow human enough to not make slaves out of them.
The WISDOM to hate those who are different than we are (gays), so much so, that killing them for just being different is perfectly fine.
The WISDOM to teach people to hate their own mother and their own children (and to abandon their own children): King James Bible: Jesus said: "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:26

 

1. The bible was written by man if accounts of God and inspired by God not written by God.

2. Trust in God God and he will show you the way. Your way may not be my way. The words May be different but the spirit is the same.

3. Even if she is not virgin the conception was divine

4/5. The Gospels were eye witness accounts of God it is logical to expect contradictions in eye different eye wittiness accounts.

6/7/14. God knows what we are going to do before we do it but that doesn't mean we don't have free will. Like a boxer knowing what punch his opponent is going to throw before he throws it because he has studied his opponent extensively and knows his fighting style. God knows us.

8/9. The bible was written by and about men who were inspired by God or encountered God. The actual writing is still limited to the ability of man and the nature of man and his culture at the time it was written.

10. The Holy Trinity is a very complicated thing to be honest i dont 100% understand it. My extremely limited understanding is. Someone had to pay our sins and someone had to refine and clearly speak the law so he sent a part of himself which was his son to re-teach and die to pay for our sins then rise again fulfillment of the law. He did not do it to convince himself to change the rules but fulfilled the rules by being the one to pay for the sins so we don't need to. As Jesus said "I have come not to abolish the Law but to fulfill the law."

12/13. Adam and Eve was a story written by man to teach us.

15/16. I honestly have to say I dont know but it really doesn't effect my feelings on God.