Papadopoulos was in contact with senior members of Trump's campaign staff

You are the one who wanted to back out of the discussion. I was only asking that you have rudimentary knowledge of the issue so that it could be reasonably discussed. You were asking very foolish question, advertising your ignorance.

Which I have done repeatedly. Exactly what assertion are you making here? Do we have issues with that assertion? I don't see any.

 

No it is not. The president might be called in a civil matter, but, if not voluntary, would need a ruling by federal court. He cannot be subpoenaed or arrested in a criminal matter. He can be investigated in a criminal matter, ala Mueller, but nothing can come of it unless he is impeached and removed.

 

No link to the amended Papadopolous indictment ... See, I'm actually schooling you. Papadopolous charges weren't reduced, and you've lied about it repeatedly. I've no idea why liberals are concerned with Russian spam-bots spreading fake news. They do quite a bit of that themselves on PF.

 

I am curious. What is relevant about Manafort joining the trump campaign to help him navigate the GOP convention? This was the primary reason he was brought on board. And what does Manaforts previous criminal activity have to do with the alleged trump putin collusion, where to date there has been no evidence of that? All that I see here is that Manafort like many of our rich people, was laundering money to hide it from the IRS. That seems to be quite common with people in and around DC. I bet Manafort does more time for his money laundering that the bankers the obama justice dept caught red handed, laundering billions in drug cartel money. I bet Manafort does not walk by just paying our gov't some of their profits from money laundering, you know, so like the mafia, our gov't gets to dip their beak into the drug money these banks laundered.

It seems if you worked for trump in his campaign, and broke the law in the past, not related to trump at all, you are indeed not too big to jail. Manafort messed up by not being a big banker, and this being a part of a political witch hunt. It just looks to me like a lot of energy was put into trying to set trump up once he promised to drain this cesspool and swamp in DC. Trump was so naive as to believe he could take on this swampy cell pool. Well, the cesspool sure showed him what they could do to him! But Schumer warned him, that his own CIA, who is supposed to serve the president could get him 6 ways from Sunday. Well, they are not the only scumbags in DC who can go after trump, are they? And IMO, this russian collusion ruse is another way to weaken trump, so that the cesspool, the swamp, remains in place, intact, and even more corrupted than trump found it to be initially.

The thing is, if you actually understand what DC is, and have a grasp of that reality, this tends to part the clouds, blow away the smoke, and shatter the mirrors. Then something rather nefarious becomes obvious. If you are against the swamp, do not believe in economic globalism, based on the exploitation of slave labor, and want to end illegal immigration, you have to take on a very powerful and entrenched gov't, including the burocrats who serve this swamp, and who also serve the military industrial national security state complex, and all of who serve a small group of elite families. And that is what drove and still drives this trying to use a ruse, in order to bring trump into line and to show him who is the boss in DC. And this conspiracy has worked out very well, in getting trump away from his campaign promises, which were not at all in the interests of a group of elite families, nor in the interest of the men in DC, who have exclusively served these elites for decades. Trump screwed up in that he did not understand just how entrenched this corrupt system was, and how powerful it is. And how several of them can get him 6 ways from Sunday.

 

WASHINGTON (AllPolitics, July 26) -- Independent counsel Ken Starr served President Bill Clinton with a subpoena in recent days that calls for his testimony before the Monica Lewinsky grand jury next week, CNN has learned.


The issuance of the subpoena marks the first time a sitting president has been subpoenaed to testify before a federal grand jury.

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/07/26/clinton.subpoena/

 

Manafort joined the Trump campaign to help Trump navigate the GOP convention. That is the relevance.

While Trump's campaign manager, he joined Junior and Trump's son-in-law when they met with four Russian operatives in Trump Tower.

The evidence is in the hands of the special prosecutor and four Republican Congressional committees and their huge documentation of countless secret hearings. Manafort's criminal activity and his work with a pro-Russian entity in Ukraine follows a pattern of lying and Russian connections. Others within Trump's organization with Russian connections include Trump himself, Moscow beauty pageant in 2013; Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner; Trump's A.G., Jeff Sessions; Trump's former NSA, Mike Flynn; Rick Gates, Papa, Carter Page, and Roger Stone.

I'm glad you asked.

As you can see, the cesspool and swamp is the incompetent Trump administration. Trump is a failure on the home front, foreign relations front, and the trade deals front. In all three areas he has made negative progress. In addition, he militarily inept. He is all talk and no substance.

Following your lecture you said:

Yes, I agree Trump is a royal screw-up. He is incapable of fixing our nation's problems. Why? As you have seen, he is part of the problem, not a part of the solution.

That said, I don't buy your swamp scenario. That is a myth promulgated by Trump supporters to justify their monstrous error in judgment by voting for Trump. They justify their mistake with their swamp and establishment scenario in which Washington is evil and all our troubles are caused by the government.

Ludicrous. The most immediate problem is the Trump administration.

 

You are being dense. You want me to waste my time on your stupid statements. If you need help, review the OP and move on from there.

 

I've reviewed the OP, and your subsequent lies. I've provided Papadopolous indictment and you refuse to acknowledge your dishonesty.

 

~~~~
Clinton's three lies, according to Starr - September 21, 1998 - CNN.com
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/09/21/lies.jackson/
Sep 21, 1998 - WASHINGTON (September 21) -- Independent Counsel Ken Starr says President Bill Clinton's videotaped testimony contains three lies -- THREE ... "You are free to infer that my testimony is that I did not have sexual relations, as ...
~~~~~~~~~~~~

You have to wonder why Ken Starr did not prosecute William Jefferson Clinton for perjury, as Fitzgerald prosecuted Scooter Libby. You have to believe that the fix was in....

 

All that happened 20 years ago. Who cares now?

Far more importantly, on his Asian tour Trump did not want talks with Putin. However, he spent more than an hour on the phone with Putin today. They spoke a great deal about Syria. Trump has virtually ceded Syria and its heinous dictator to Russia.

Trump has said privately that he considers Syria to be Obama’s failure and that he sees little the U.S. can do about it now, according to a person briefed on one of his conversations. That view was reflected in Trump’s decision earlier this year to cancel a covert CIA program that armed moderate Syrian rebels fighting Assad’s regime.

They also spoke about Iran and North Korea, both Russian allies. The White House didn't mention any progress on those two fronts. In fact the White House didn't mention any progress whatsoever. To be expected, I guess.

The elephant in the room was Russia's interference in our Presidential election. That matter was not discussed.

To be expected, I guess. Trump avoids the subject like the plaque. He still insists Russian interference is a hoax created by the Democratic Party.

 

Deal specifically with what I have said if you wish discussion. Your provocative posts are a waste of time.

 

Post # 201 and the post mentioned therein. I can't be any more specific. Either you concede Papadopolous plead guilty as charged to the crime specified in the indictment, or you don't. Either you concede that indictment wasn't amended, or you don't. Either you concede that Papadopolous has been prosecuted, on the charge contained in the indictment or you don't. Mueller never alleged Papadopolous contacts were illegal. Trump is not implicated in anything with regards to Russian collaboration, or sanctioning Papadopolous contacts.

 

Correct, "What difference does it make now".... Seems William Jefferson Clinton not only perjured himself in testimony to the Starr interrogatories but also before the judge in the Paula Jones case....

 

Yes, this was the exception that proves the rule, I suppose. The courts ruled Starr's subpoena was O.K. I think that was a very dicey ruling, though dicey opinionated court rulings have been the rule of the day for decades now.

 

If having connections with Russians, say over the last decade or so, is a crime, there are thousands that should be arrested, including Hillary for one.

 

There is only relevance if Manafort joined in order to help the trump campaign collude with russia, (yet how would they do this?) and on the side, he helped trump to navigate the GOP convention. But since there was never a conspiracy of collusion, Manafort has no relevance to these false accusations, which BTW, you have lived in great hope that collusion happened. This is partisan and hate driven with you, and you cannot see the stupidity of the accusations. The meeting with a russian lawyer who lied to get an audience, for other reasons, amounts to nothing. Her ploy failed. And yet if she had given them something, or offered them a dossier on hillary,. how is this different from paying Steele to pay russians to get dirt on trump? lol

In regards to the swamp, which even the Princeton Study evidenced, well, and the same swamp which was revealed when it took us into Iraq, if you want to ignore it because you hate trump, fine, for I will not stop your from killing your own brain cells. And disconnecting yourself from a reality which does not serve your partisanship and hatred. A mind is a terrible thing to waste is what I will say.

You really are, with your rejection of this swamp, this bought off gov't, are in good company with the GOP. But then again, hillary is and was GOP lite, just as you are forcing yourself to be, in your hatred of trump. What strange bedfellows hatred and personality create.

 

Instead of charging Papa with a conspiracy, the FBI charged him with lying to the FBI, a lesser charge than conspiracy. Somehow you are making an issue of this.

That has yet to be determined. The FBI alleged that he lied to the FBI. Duh! You are foolishly trying to litigate this thing and you can't.

Consistently repeating this does not make it reality. Again, yet to be determined and Mueller is using Papa as an informant, a source of great concern to Trump.

 

Where's your evidence that supports your claim of a "conspiracy" charge being dismissed? I'm not litigating anything. Papadopolous case has been FULLY litigated ... end of story. Mueller has determined, and legally resolved the legalities surrounding Papadopolous communications. You've offered nothing to support your claims about Papadopolous ... only speculation.

 

It seems Shanks has high expectations from his hopes, dreams, and speculations.

 

“Few people knew the young, low level volunteer named George, who has already proven to be a liar,” Trump wrote on Twitter.

White House spokesperson, Sarah Sanders, had this to say about Papadopoulos. "It was extremely limited. It was a volunteer position."

"He reached out and nothing happened beyond that. Which I think shows, one, his level of importance in the campaign; and two, shows what little role he had within coordinating anything officially for the campaign," she added.

Strange, Trump at first was relieved that the indictments of Manafort and Gates provided "no collusion."

"A few minutes later, court documents were unsealed showing that George Papadopoulos, an unpaid foreign policy adviser on Trump’s campaign, pleaded guilty to making a false statement to the FBI about his efforts to broker a relationship between Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin. The case provides the clearest evidence yet of links between Trump’s campaign and Russian officials," Washington Post.

Trump’s resulting anger Monday was palpable and the mood in the corridors of the White House was one of weariness and fear of the unknown.

The realization that Papadopoulos was a low level, unpaid volunteer has no bearing. The fact that he is an informant, probably since July, does. Judge Napolitano on Fox News speculated that he had been wired. He pleaded guilty on Oct. 5 and the judge sealed the proceedings so that Papadopoulos could gather evidence. This is what is keeping Trump awake at nights.

Another important distinction is the undeniable fact the Papadopoulos was in contact with some very important people. Newly released court documents show that Trump's foreign policy adviser had communicated with several senior campaign officials about his outreach to the Russian government over a period of months.

Papadopoulos emailed campaign supervisor Sam Clovis and other campaign officials about a March 24, 2016, meeting he had in London with a professor who had Russian leanings. Clovis responded that he would “work it through the campaign,” adding, “great work,” according to court documents.

"In August 2016, Clovis responded to efforts by Papadopoulos to organize an “off the record” meeting with Russian officials. “I would encourage you” and another foreign policy adviser to the campaign to “make the trip, if it is feasible,” Clovis wrote," Washington Post.

Papadopoulos was also in contact with onetime campaign manager Corey Lewandowski. The emails were among more than 20,000 pages that the Trump campaign turned over to congressional committees after review by White House and defense lawyers, according to the Post.

Papadopoulos wrote to Lewandowski several times to let him know that the Russians were interested in forging a relationship with the campaign, court filings show.

In one email on April 27, 2016, Papadopoulos wrote “to discuss Russia’s interest in hosting Mr. Trump.”

The court filings indicate that Papadopoulos emailed “another high-ranking campaign official” on May 21, 2016, with the subject line “Request from Russia to meet Mr. Trump.”
This official has been identified as Paul Manafort.

"The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father. This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump."

"Thanks Rob I appreciate that. I am on the road at the moment but perhaps I just speak to Emin first. Seems we have some time and if it's what you say I love it especially later in the summer. Could we do a call first thing next week when I am back?
Best,
Don"

Six days later, on June 9, 2016, Donald Trump, Jr., Jared Kushner, and Paul Manafort, Trump's campaign manager at the time, met with four Russian operatives in Trump Tower.

By the merest of coincidence that was exactly what Papadopoulos was trying to arrange.

It is not a coincidence.

 

Papadopoulos was charged under seal in July and was arrested when he arrived at Dulles International Airport on July 27. His plea agreement indicates that he is cooperating with special counsel Robert S. Mueller III. He pleaded guilty in October to lying to federal agents about his contacts with people with connections to the Russian government, filings show.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...dab5a0ab381_story.html?utm_term=.5160c1ee74f2

 

All of this is accurate. But you take this anthill and blow it up into Mt. Everest with your loud pronouncements that Papa met with Russian officials and was trying to arrange a meeting between Russians and the Trump campaign and maybe even Trump. OH! HORRORS! Actually that was Papa's main assignment -- to setup discussions between a presidential candidate and a foreign power -- happens all the time. Obama had actual negotiations with Iran 2008 and had at least official meetings with Israel and Palestine.

 

Horror of horrors, as I pointed out in the OP, what Papa was trying to set up happened. Junior, Kushner, and Manafort met with representatives of the Russian government in Trump Tower in June 2016.

It is illegal for Americans to collaborate with a foreign government in a Presidential election. At the very least it is a violation of FEC laws.

"Obama had actual negotiations with Iran 2008 and had at least official meetings with Israel and Palestine."

Prove that. Without proof, your statement is meaningless, an outright lie, even.

 

As I understand it Papa's charge was to set the stage for a Trump campaign-Russian confab as a starting get-together. The meeting in Trump Towers is and was not that. Secondly, collaboration, which implies something sinister, was not close to the purpose, as it was not in Obama-Iran or Obama-Israel/Palestine. (Though his hot mike conversation with the Russian president in 2012 really smelled of collaboration.) These near innocuous discussions and phone calls are not viewed as illegal.

 

First, Papa makes a deal with Mueller to be his informant. Now this.

One possible meaning of a decision by Mike Flynn's legal team to cut off communication with Trump's team is that Flynn, the former White House national security adviser, is about to roll over and provide incriminating information about Trump and members of his inner circle, which includes family, to special counsel Robert Mueller.

The New York Times reported on Thursday that “the notification led Mr. Trump's lawyers to believe that Mr. Flynn — who, along with his son, is seen as having significant criminal exposure — has, at the least, begun discussions with Mr. Mueller about cooperating.” That's a logical conclusion because, as the Times's Michael S. Schmidt, Matt Apuzzo and Maggie Haberman explained, “it is unethical for lawyers to work together when one client is cooperating with prosecutors and another is still under investigation.”

Norman Eisen — President Barack Obama's White House ethics czar, now a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution — tweeted that personal experience with Mueller leads him to believe that Flynn could implicate Donald Trump Jr., Jared Kushner or even the President himself.

Trump has not held a White House press conference where the press corps can ask him questions since February, and that one was a disaster for him. Trump has a tendency to hold news conferences on the front lawn of the White House to the accompaniment of Marine One's chopper blades, making it hard for viewers to hear Trump's answers while reporters' questions can't be heard. He has refused to release his tax returns as he promised earlier. He lied. Now his tax returns are being placed in a safe by the IRS. That is a first. Obstruction, anyone?

It is abundantly clear that Trump is hiding something.

It is certainly plausible, given the circumstances, that Putin has something on Trump. That would be extremely dangerous to our national security.

Mueller is closing in. He will find out what is going on.

He has to. We can't go on like this.