Patriotism

You're assuming Trump and 'republicans' believe the election was free and fair and the results were accurate, despite everything he and many of they have said to the contrary. You can believe whatever you want, but dictating your beliefs onto others isn't any more reasonable than others dictating their beliefs onto you. Consider if I were to assert that you believe we need to get rid of the constitution so we can vote to own slaves again in America, based on your claim that 'republicans can't also be Americans.' I would (hopefully) be wrong in trying to thusly mischaracterize your beliefs, just as you are wrong in trying to mischaracterize Trump's and 'republican's' beliefs about the election.

Fraudulent elections should be able to be overturned, otherwise their is no point in having elections. As much as you believe 'republicans' want to 'overturn' legitimate elections, many of them believe the election was not legitimate.

I can agree the burden of proof of an illegitimate election has not been properly presented. Can you agree that if it were, the election should be overturned?

 

Great, then vote democrat. Even donate. Try some patriotism, it feels good now and then, you might be surprised.

 

Stuff it.

 

Oh, you agree that it hasn't been properly presented??? Well your majesty, which particular part did you feel fell slightly outside of the margins? Was it going to the courts 60 times demanding elections be cancelled because a drunk gal thought someone looked at her funny? Was it the amassing a pathetic army to storm and violently end that election that maybe was a little gauche for your taste? Is the packing of courts and legislatures and passing laws to allow partisan hacks to overturn elections no matter what the voters want? Is that coloring a tiny bit outside the lines for you? Was it maybe the throwing out the constitution in a demand that pence cancel the election that was 'kinda tacky?' Or the throwing out the constitution in an orchestrated powerpoint to end democracy in America? Which of these minor infractions did you find a little not to your taste?

 

I'm arguing that in order to have a meaningful discussion, terminology needs to be objectively defined. The definition of 'republican' is:

republican
[rəˈpəbləkən]
ADJECTIVE

1. (of a form of government, constitution, etc.) belonging to, or characteristic of a republic.
   synonyms:
   elected · representative · parliamentary · popular · of the people · populist · egalitarian · classless · self-governing · autonomous

NOUN

1. a person advocating or supporting republican government

Certainly a republican and the Republican Party are by no means the same thing. I am absolutely a republican and absolutely not a member of the Republican Party, for example, and this distinction is common among many people.

 

The main problem with all of this is you can't get from a place of loving or even respecting America to 'the election was stolen.' Those aren't real beliefs, they are excuses. It's like a guy who kidnaps his child and locks her in the trunk because he 'believes' his ex is abusing that child. Meanwhile the child was happy, doing well in school, and scared to death of dad.

 

Knock it off, this is meaningless.

 

I'm telling you. There are great things about being American.

 

I tend to not answer the questions of others while my questions to them go ignored. That seem to me to not be in the spirit of an honest debate.

The questions was: I can agree the burden of proof of an illegitimate election has not been properly presented, can you agree that if it were, the election should be overturned?

 

You're still projecting your own beliefs onto others. Thats called Psychological Projection and is not considered a healthy practice.

 

It's not a legitimate question. The answer is that is a massive constitutional question that probably depends heavily on countless circumstances. Nobody really knows. But, you might as well ask who to vote for if aliens from another galaxy show up, shove their hands into the skulls of the two candidates and use them for puppets. We are so many light-years from that scenario that it has absolutely no bearing on the conversation.

 

Obviously you just do not believe in America anymore. Which is fine.
Once North Koreans Spies leave, to go spy...Guess what they lose belief in North Korea. Its a big problem for North Korea.
There such things are a crime, here it is not. Belief in our election system means you participate, and accept the results.
You have seen evidence enough in your opinion to cause you to stop believing. Cool. See ya. No one is forcing you to remain an American...no one. We have done all the due diligence necessary for every single piece of evidence presented. Its a done deal. Either you believe in our system or you don't.
If you dont, and want to have your faith restored..participate again. If not, go whine with Hillary and Trump. The election is DONE!!

If one is a criminal, one may even be tempted to think they can get away with cheating...America is not a poor country.

 

Look, I don't know what the average pudding brain actually thinks. I do know that to look at no evidence and decide that America needs to end, you can't like America. But more importantly, everyone in any seat of power in the party 100% knew that nothing was stolen. The important part is that too many voters don't care enough about their country to hold them accountable because they don't care enough about their country.

 

Your apparent belief that election fraud could only occur as a sci-fi/fantasy scenario indicates that we have hit an impasse in our ability to have a meaningful debate. I cannot fathom on what you would base your apparent unfailing trust in the competency and intentions of our politcal establishment, and I suspect you therefore cannot fathom why others would distrust it.

 

I believe in America. I do not believe in the competency or the trustworthiness of our government or our political estabslishment.

Can we agree there is a difference?

 

To END that is END voting in this country (which is what would happen if we just straight up 'overturned' an election for any reason) would require an insane amount of fraud. That fraud is absolutely sci-fi impossible to exist if literally NOBODY has seen ANY of it.

 

Can you even begin to fathom how competent someone would have to be if the election WAS stolen?

 

Let's also not forget the multiple LANDFILLS of evidence we have that trump tried to steal it.

 

There was no attempt by - nor any possibility of - the Capitol protest ending elections in the USA . This is simple nonsense.

There was no attempt to "Steal the Country" .. this was not a coup .. nor an attempted coup.... simple nonsense.

That the protest caused the country to burn to the ground .. simple nonsense ...

 

There are lots of people who have claimed to have seen it. The political estbalishment in general claims they are wrong.

To say "NOBODY has seen ANY of it" is to say all the people who claim to have seen it are all lying. You could say that you believe they're all mistaken, or what they saw wasn't enough to change the results of the election, both of those would be entirely reasonable. But instead you jump right to assuming the intentions of a lot of people that you've never met and know nothing about. Thats is why it seems like you're Projecting your own Psychology onto others.

 

Which is why you have a voice, and a vote.
Do you believe in your vote?

 

Would you agree that if he had succeeded, his administration would've likely tried to suppress much of that evidence?

 

What is this, agree so you agree?
WTF irrelevant, because he had no administration. He fired them all. He had loyalists, Trump supporters, and propaganda. None of which had the power to suppress anything obviously.

 

There was no chance that pence could overturn the election either, but boy did they sure try like hell. These were insanely stupid and incompetent people but they did everything in their power. It absolutely was an attempted coup and if the secdef had been a little trumpier, we might have had a much bigger one. It isn't the protest. It's the ending of democracy, that will burn the country to the ground. In other words the republican platform.

 

Ok, nobody who isn't either eating their own poop, lied repeatedly for trump, or trump themselves. That equates to nobody.