Pence says Trump 'endangered my family' on Jan. 6

This is an interesting read, written soon after Jan 6th. https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-capitol-siege-riots-media-8000ce7db2b176c1be386d945be5fd6a
I think that each one of us has their own way of defining what happened at the capital building on Jan 6th.
Websters says this is the definition of "insurrection": "an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government" https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/insurrection
I think it's reasonable that someone would term what happened on Jan 6th as an insurrection, according to the definition of it.
Tell me, why do you think the word insurrection doesn't apply?

 

It says this.
https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/does-the-constitution-allow-for-a-delayed-presidential-election

Clearly a delay was planned for.

 

One reason I don't think it applies is because our government is three pronged. You can't have an insurrection while ignoring any branch of the government. Which also includes the State governments which sends representatives to the Federal government. Which State do you think would really recognize a mock government?

 

So, you are saying that if Congress couldn't complete certification of the election, presumably on 1/6, they just skip that step and move on?

Probably a key part of Mango's plan

Congrats.....To paraphrase Jeff Foxworthy, you too, might be a seditionist....

 

I'm not interested in a strawman version of what I said.

 

Why do you make a qualifier for "insurrection" that doesn't exist? Can you show me a definition that depends on "because our government is three pronged"?
It's a little trick one does to make a predetermined outcome look natural.
Sometimes I watch a show on tv called "Ancient Aliens". They examine a (usually) fascinating relic or society from long ago in our past. Then, they say something like "since the joints in these stones appear to be so precise, they must be cut with a laser. IF that is true, then we must have been visited by ancient aliens.
See the leap there?
Maybe our ancestors had a method we can't figure out to cut stones precisely. Not as romantic or exciting. But which is more likely?
But the trick is to make it more exciting, because that's the narrative they want to project to make the show more dramatic.
It's not a new trick, but it is a trick, nonetheless.
Why do you define it differently than anywhere else I can find? Isn't it obvious why others may see Jan 6th as an insurrection, and why you don't agree?

 

Please read the Electoral Count Act of 1887 and educate yourself...
He actually did have the right to overturn the fraudulent election... Pence is wrong... It is the very reason the Democrats scrambled to change the 135 yr old law... they are now trying to make it a ceremonial position. Pence could decertify the results or send them back to the states for change and certification,.

 

Everyone who has read the ECA knows you are wrong. And your side tried to get the ECA declared unconstitutional precisely BECAUSE it didn't give Pence this ability. Homework. Try it.

 

There are several dictionaries available to use to determine the meaning of a word. As someone who spent the greater part of my life studying word meanings I never take just one being conclusive. Plus I recognize that definitions change by use - meaning the more people define a word their way the more acceptable it becomes where it will find its way into published dictionaries. For the purpose of this discussion I prefer using this one, in conjunction with examples in history.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/insurrection

I could unpack this definition word by word to make my argument, but I'm sure that would be a waste of my time. A ragtag mob, like you saw on 1/6, doesn't even come close to describing insurrectionists.

 

Stop embarrassing yourself...Actually read the law instead of making a lame interpretation of it... That is what the Electoral Count Act of 1887 was for... ......
that is why the Democrats are scrambling to change the 135 year old law that is on the books...it is a process for how Congress will resolve irregularities in accepting electoral slates from states. The Democrats did the same thing in 2017, .. everything was OK as long as it was them doing it... please stop posting misleading and untruthful posts

January 6, 2017.... seven House Democrats tried to object to electoral votes from multiple states.
Jim McGovern (D-Mass.) objected to Alabama's votes.
Jamie Raskin (D-Md.) objected to Florida's votes.
Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.) objected to Georgia's votes.
Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.) objected to North Carolina's votes.
Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Texas) objected to the votes from North Carolina in addition to votes from South Carolina and Wisconsin. She also stood up and objected citing "massive voter suppression" after Mississippi's votes were announced.
Barbara Lee (D-Calif.) brought up allegations of Russian interference in the election and malfunctioning voting machines when she objected following the announcement of Michigan's votes.
Maxine Waters (D-Calif) rose and said, "I do not wish to debate. I wish to ask 'Is there one United States senator who will join me in this letter of objection?'" after the announcement of Wyoming's votes.

https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-democrats-object-more-states-2016-republicans-2020-1561407

 

Someone didn't read before "responding." We were talking about THE VP rejecting the votes. Not lawmakers. Catch up. Go back and read. Massive fail.

 

You're wrong.

 

There is a lot of that happening in this thread today...

 

If that's what you think, then you haven't read the ECA. Or the Constitution. Neither gives the VP this power. Catch up.

 

That is interesting! Thanks for answering in a well thought manner!
You make a good point that there are differing definitions. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if I looked, I could find more.
I don't think you waste your time by explaining it, in fact, I would say you may save time.
I will agree that it was a poorly orchestrated and executed event.
I would put forth this, though. I watched it in real time. I watched many hours of video of the event later. There were many of the protesters who were stating, themselves, that the reason they were doing what they were doing was to stop Biden from being processed as the new president elect so that Trump would remain in office as president after Jan 20th, 2021. In other words, keep Trump in the office that Biden had won, according to the votes of the people of the US.
That is "an organized attempt by a group of people to defeat their government and take control of their country, usually by violence:"
It doesn't say they have to kill everyone or take over the government completely, as all you need to do is take control of it, and there isn't a more direct way to take over our republic than change the president.
From Collins : "An insurrection is violent action that is taken by a large group of people against the rulers of their country, usually in order to remove them from office."
From YourDictionary: "A rising up against established authority; rebellion; revolt"

My only point is this: don't be so outraged or surprised that someone has a different take on something if it is dependent on how something is defined.
Again, thanks for the civil discourse!

 

Pence could decertify the results or send them back to the states for change and certification,. Read the law..

And yes....
January 6, 2017.... seven House Democrats tried to object to electoral votes from multiple states.
Jim McGovern (D-Mass.) objected to Alabama's votes.
Jamie Raskin (D-Md.) objected to Florida's votes.
Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.) objected to Georgia's votes.
Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.) objected to North Carolina's votes.
Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Texas) objected to the votes from North Carolina in addition to votes from South Carolina and Wisconsin. She also stood up and objected citing "massive voter suppression" after Mississippi's votes were announced.
Barbara Lee (D-Calif.) brought up allegations of Russian interference in the election and malfunctioning voting machines when she objected following the announcement of Michigan's votes.
Maxine Waters (D-Calif) rose and said, "I do not wish to debate. I wish to ask 'Is there one United States senator who will join me in this letter of objection?'" after the announcement of Wyoming's votes.

https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-democrats-object-more-states-2016-republicans-2020-1561407

 

YW. It's always a pleasure for me to be a part of a civil discussion.

In parting (since I mentioned I use definitions in conjunction with history) I offer you this.

https://www.history.com/news/5-famous-coups

I only ask that you highlight the similarities between these historical examples of insurrections with what you saw on 1/6.

 

Facts concerning the degenerate Trump goons' attack continue to be documented:

Newly released video of the Capitol attack shows... the apparent evacuation of Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) from the Senate chamber as a uniformed officer separates him and his security detail from the first wave of rioters who had breached the building. Those rioters were led by Proud Boy Dominic Pezzola (jail, awaiting trial on charges including seditious conspiracy for his participation in the January 6 United States Capitol attack. ), who used a riot shield to shatter a Senate window and ignite the breach of the building near the chamber. Grassley's caught-on-tape proximity to the pro-Trump rioters adds new dissonance to [Fox entertainer, "not to be believed" according to Fox] Tucker Carlson's on-air minimization of the siege. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...ush-revealed-in-new-jan-6-footage/ar-AA18FBuY

On Monday morning... Edward Rodriguez, 28, of Brooklyn, New York, pleaded guilty to a felony charge of assaulting, resisting or impeding certain officers, inflicting bodily injury. https://news.yahoo.com/suit-macer-subject-jan-6-004103928.html​

Cowardly liar:

Trump Says January 6 Violence Was Actually Pence’s Fault

​

As of January 6, 20223,

A majority of Congress have spoken out against the insurrection, and even Republican Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, who were both openly critical of Trump.​

Stewart Rhodes, the founder of right-wing militia group Oath Keepers and Kelly Meggs, the leader of the organization’s Florida chapter were both convicted of seditious conspiracy (the agreement between two or more people to overthrow the government) in November 2022 due to their roles in the insurrection.

According to a Department of Justice database, there have been about 978 people charged and arrested with multiple crimes related to the attack.

Some of the charges include obstruction of law enforcement during civil disorder, entering and remaining in a restricted building or grounds, engaging in physical violence in a restricted building or grounds and forcibly assaulting, resisting, opposing, impeding federal officers. There have been rioters arrested in “nearly all 50 states,” and over 260 of them have been charged with more serious crimes relating to assaulting or impeding law enforcement, according to the DOJ.

About 465 rioters have pleaded guilty and entered into plea deals. The charges they’ve pleaded guilty to include assault on law enforcement and obstruction of a civil proceeding. John Schaffer, a lifetime founding member of the Oath Keepers, was the first to enter into a plea deal and faces up to 30 years in prison, according to the DOJ.

According to the DOJ, about 335 people have received sentencing in relation to the January 6 attacks, and approximately 185 have been sentenced to time in prison.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ariann...e-donald-trump-may-still-pay/?sh=24be8cfa513e

Friction is growing over a new wave of falsehoods by Fox​

 

I have. The law doesn't say that. And your allies tried having the ECA declared unconstitutional because it prevented this.

None of these people were VP. None of them tried to unilaterally send the votes back the way you are saying that the VP can. How did you not know these people weren't the VP? How?

 

Are you trying to convince me that McConnell is a political opportunist? His finger is wet.

 

Do your homework.... you don't know what you are talking about... The Democrats ran like little screaming kids to change the law to their liking... which is just the very reason your post's are wrong.. Look up the "Electoral Count Reform Act" that the little kiddies had to change the very law you don't know about.....

 

Some will kowtow to Trumpery, no matter how many Republican officeholders and others who were present at the Trump goon attack (while the Loser pleasured himself, watching on tv) speak out.

 

You are still wrong about the ECA. Just like you were when you claimed that it didn't say anything about official EC votes having to be under the seal of the state, officiated by the executive of the state. You still haven't read the ECA. The ECA does not give the VP this power, and your own political allies tried having the ECA declared unconstitutional because of this. Please actually look up the stuff that you are pretending you have read, because you haven't, which is why you can't even discuss it.

 

PROOF that THESE PEOPLE will never be happy unless all republicans bend the knee. Trump's words were reckless regarding Mike Pence and I agree with that part. Can't you be happy that someone from the other side is putting information over partisanship? This NEVER happens on the left. That STILL isn't enough. you won't be happy until he's on the ground on all 4s worshiping a BLM flag like its Muslim prayer time or something!

SAD!

This is why the 2 sides won't ever find middle ground again, because of HYPER PARTISANS

 

Yea, sure.