Post proof a god exists.

First, who are you to say what Christianity is or isn't based solely on what you believe it to be and not to be? Give me some facts or your opinion will hold as much weight as the nearest fundamentalists.
Second, the reason Christianity today is much more docile than the Christianity of the past isn't more religion. It is because the founding fathers chopped religions arms and legs off with the separation of church and state and freedom of speech. Secularism and science had to drag religion kicking and screaming into the 21st century and we are still struggling to free ourselves from it's ignorance to this day.

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill," (Matt. 5:17).

"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished," (NASB, Matt. 5:1.

Again what you believe in ignorance of scripture is irrelevant. The laws of the old testament are upheld by Jesus not repudiated therefore they are not to be dismissed in any debate on Christianity.

Go find me a truly good non-religious person who drowned their children because they believed it was the right thing to do. And perhaps this isn't the best example but the point is we are not talking about committing some petty crime we are talking about the things one would consider evil.

How is that an opinion? Go find me an example, just one and I'll concede the point. As for people's belief about the positives born out of religion I am aware, yet I have never been swayed by even one of the arguments. In fact many that I have heard turned out to be a major negative. I would love to be challenged on this in another thread.

Wow this is the second time I heard someone tell me to consider the idea of live and let live while completely ignoring the reality of what that means.

This was my reply last time with a few edits to remove the posters name.

We do not live in a anarchists world, we live in a society and societies do not thrive off of live and let live they also cannot stand when individuals are forced to tow the line. Where does that leave us? It leaves us in a world where perspective matters, where knowledge and evidence matter. It leaves us in a world where claims about that world must earn their right to be considered valid or valuable.

We are not individuals who just so happen to be experiencing the same existence as those around us. We created this world of societies out of ideas, where they come from and what the say matters a great deal beyond the individual.

Even if you never mentioned your belief to anyone in your life if it matters to you it will change your perspective thereby affecting everyone else.

 

You do realize that Revelation was brought before the Roman Imperial Biblical Canon to be accepted into the New Testament and Revelation WAS REFUSED ENTRY INTO THE BIBLE MULTIPLE TIMES.

It was not until hundreds of years later in 397 AD when do to a change in Church Politics that the Biblical Canon voted to include Revelation into the New Testament and EVEN THEN...there was so great an argument that the story of Revelation was TOO VIOLENT AND TOO VICIOUS a story and not consistent and conflicting to the LOVE AND FORGIVENESS message that existed throughout the New Testament that Revelation STILL was not allowed into the Bible until 417 AD.

Understand this....because of the persecution of Christian's by the Romans prior to Emperor Constantine THERE DOES NOT AND DID NOT EXIST A SINGLE GOSPEL OR BOOK THAT WAS EITHER AN ORIGINAL COPY OR EVEN WAS A COPY THAT THE WORDS AND STORIES OF SUCH GOSPELS AND BOOKS COULD OR CAN BE STATED WERE THE SAME AS WHAT WAS ORIGINALLY WRITTEN.

This is the problem....all the Christian's that had the Gospels and Books that were part of the entire number of Gospels and Books that ONLY A FEW were selected and used by the Biblical Canon....those Christian's were killed by the Romans and the Gospels and Books were BURNED AND DESTROYED.

Thus surviving Christian's had to RECREATE those Gospels and Books FROM MEMORY....and again these next group of Christians were SLAIN and those Gospels and Books were again burned and destroyed and then ANOTHER group of Christian's again had to recreate FROM MEMORY....what had been written in the SECOND COPY of such Christian Books and Gospels and these new recreated CHRISTIAN BOOKS AND GOSPELS WERE BURNED AND DESTROYED AGAIN...AND AGAIN....AND AGAIN...AND AGAIN....ETC.

Because of this we cannot in even the most MODEST TERMS know or state what was originally written and what were such Gospels and Books...as we simply don't know.

THAT...is the problem.

AboveAlpha

 

Facts now show that Abortions are necessary,... unless we want Welfare to double.

America has 1.5 million illegitimate babies every year, AND 1.2 million Abortions.
So the bible beliefs have been right!

 

So you do believe in Reality!

And, you insist that Truth will make things you say about Reality prove it.
That is what the bible says, too.

God is Reality and His son is Truth.

 

Ever notice how highly religious people refuse to accept the FACT that use of Morning After and Plan B drugs which will not allow a Fertilized Egg Cell to implant itself in a woman's Uterine Wall if taken at least by the next morning thus completely eliminating the possibility of pregnancy this eliminating the possibility of an abortion is without a doubt the best and most sensible way in cases where contraception is not used during intercourse to lower the number of abortions.

As some Highly Religious individuals site that because the egg cell has been fertilized it is the beginning of a Human even if such a belief is neither physiologically or logically factual as in REALITY until that fertilized egg cell implants itself in the Uterine Wall of which many naturally NEVER DO....it is not even a potential fetus..........

.......such Highly Religious people who take issue with Morning After and Plan B have ABSOLUTELY NO ISSUE AND EVEN ADVOCATE that a couple who are having difficulty conceiving go to a FERTILITY CLINIC to do so.

The vast majority of such Highly Religious individuals who advocate the use of a Fertility Clinic to conceive but protest the use of Plan B and Morning After are displaying an UNBELIEVABLE LEVEL OF HYPOCRISY as Fertility Clinics fertilize a huge number of Human Eggs and only chose a few for implantation for just a single couple as the millions of fertilized Human Eggs not chosen for use are discarded and destroyed.

AboveAlpha

 

There's a simple explanation for that. Most of us live in places in which the dominant religion is Christianity. I suspect very few of us have been subjected to Buddhist double standards, or have had Hindus stand in our doorway and tell us we're doomed if we don't immediately start worshipping Ganesha, or had their small children terrified by elderly jewish ladies telling then they Must Believe in God, or else.

 

The difference is I have been shown the reality in a PHYSICAL SENSE...as far as Psychics and Remote Viewers are concerned....as this reality is a concrete physical action.

I have NOT ever been shown or experienced anything that could PROVE the existence of a GOD.

AboveAlpha

 

Nor have you ever been shown or apparently experienced anything that could DISPROVE the existence of a God either. You don't know what the truth is either way. So you made a choice, which is fine. But then you want to denigrate those who made a different choice, and that's not what this country was founded on. That's why a lot of people came here in the first place, so they could make their own choice. What we have here is religious intolerance, if you believe in God then you are branded a fool by the arrogant and condescending few who think they know better.

 

I have posted MANY TIMES that the reason I am an Agnostic is because that the existence of a GOD cannot either be proven or disproven.

However PROBABILITY dictates an extremely low probability such a GOD exists and an extremely high probability such a GOD does not exist still it is a possibility.

The purpose of this topic I created was NOT to prove a GOD does not exist but rather to allow the many members on this forum who were claiming to have definitive proof a GOD exists to post such proof.

Such proof has yet to be posted.

AboveAlpha

 

Probability based on what? How can you possibly say that that there is an extremely low probability that GOD exists? You have absolutely nothing on which to base that assumption.

There is not and never will be proof one way or another on the existence of GOD. If you wish to conclude that since no proof or evidence is forthcoming you may say that GOD does not exist, that's fine. The main point I have tried to make is that this question is undeterminable, and it is not right to attack anyone else for making a different choice than you did.

 

In calculating degrees and percentages of Higher and Lower PROBABILITY in this question calculations of PROBABILITY must be based upon any VIABLE evidence existing that would support such a GOD existing and one would first have to look at UNIVERSAL NATURAL PHYSICAL LAWS....and compare it to determine if such a GOD could exist or if such a GOD'S existence would be in some way consistent with such Natural Universal Laws.

Looking at this we find that the Natural Physical Laws of the Universe do NOT support the existence of such a GOD...but they do not rule it out entirely if such a GOD existed within a MULTIVERSAL SYSTEM as improbable as that might be but it is not 100% ruled out.

Then we would have to look at all existing RELIGIOUS TEXT existing in the world that would support such a GOD existing but even though such Religious Text such as the Bible, Koran and Torah might detail out such a GOD existing the method and history of such Religious Text has been proven to be EXCEPTIONALLY FLAWED and so contradictory that such Religious Text can not be used as evidence.

Then we would have to investigate any living EYE WITNESS OR WITNESSES TESTIMONY...but since such Testimony whether it is fact or not could be attributed to any number of Highly Intelligent Alien Life Forms or Entities....it means such testimony could NEVER be known for certain what level of a GOD or ENTITY that may or may not have given such people these experiences...thus this must be ruled OUT.

Thus the only thing left is POSSIBLE EVIDENCE....of POSSIBLE EXISTENCE...based upon such a GOD existing within a MULTIVERSAL SYSTEM.

At this point we can calculate an EXCEPTIONALLY EXTREME LOW PROBABILITY that such a GOD exists.

And we can calculate an EXCEPTIONAL EXTREMELY HIGH PROBABILITY....basically 99.9^896% that such a GOD as specifically defined by the parameters set forth and determined NOT EXISTING.

THAT...is the reality.

So thus although a tiny in the extreme probability exists that allows a POSSIBILITY that such a GOD exists.....the incredibly high level of probability existing that such a GOD does NOT EXIST....is so extreme that one can all but rule out such a GOD as defined by our parameters existing.

HOWEVER....that does NOT mean a LOWER CAPABILITY GOD....with less exceptional capabilities defined...might not exist.

It might be entirely possible that Highly Intelligent Alien Life Forms might have visited the Earth and in an attempt to guide the Human Race helped us to set down some basic laws that would allow us to become less primitive.

Such Alien Beings would have without a doubt been considered as GODS or a GOD and when we analyze such things as ancient cave paintings and Chilean and North American Rock carvings that depict what appears to be Alien Beings and Flying Craft....this does lend evidence to such a thing happening.

AboveAlpha

 

A Christian must have noticed the rise is Gayness coming out visible in America after the 1965 Feminist Sexual Revolution which changed america into No Fault Divorce open promiscuity.
surely you can see that this is THE event that precedes the down fall of a nation.

It is one of things Christ said we would be free from, if we behaved as prudently as in times of Universal Christianity.

You DO see the Child Abuse half the nation suffers now in fatherlessness.
Right?

 

Funny....most people believe child abuse and pedophilia is a monopoly held by the Christian Church.

AboveAlpha

 

You misunderstand. Of course I think that you too know nothing. So whilst you did indeed give the impression that you are not aware of that lack of knowledge concerning what constitutes reality, I don’t doubt that you too get out of bed every morning just because of faith. Whatever floats your boat, if it works for you, go for it. It’s certainly not me who makes claims of superiority here, I’m just drawing your attention to the fact that we all live by faith one way or the other.

 

Just because I might not know what might exist around a bend in the road does not mean I am going to believe and have FAITH that a giant 300 foot pink elephant is right around that bend.

THAT....is essentially what you are doing...having Faith in a giant 300 foot pink elephant existing.

AboveAlpha

 

Who is WE? This is nonsense, conclusions based on absolutely nothing but conjecture and unsubstantiated assumptions. Which was no doubt made by people who had already determined what the conclusions would be. This is a massive FAIL.

 

This is absolute BS. Child abuse and pedophilia is a much larger problem that far exceeds the Christian Church. You wanna show a ink to a survey or poll that backs up your ridiculous claim?

 

Basically because you don't understand what I have posted you state it fails? LOL!!!

Do you even understand one single thing I have posted?

How about this....what is the reason that for a GOD to exist it would have to be in a Multiversal System rather than within a single Universe and why does Non-Linear Time so important for such a GOD?

AboveAlpha

 

Coming from somebody who believes in the existence of remote viewing, telekinesis and other psychic powers, that is a bit thick!

 

As I stated...I do not BELIEVE in such things existing...I KNOW such things exist.

AboveAlpha

 

How the hell do I know? But more to the point, you don't know either, so you and your group make up crap and expect everyone else to accept it. Do you realize how ridiculous your argument is? You don't believe in God, but you theorize that if God did exist then this, that, and the other thing must be true. What an absolute load of crap! What a monumental ego and arrogance to assume you can know anything at all about God in any context. It's total nonsense.

 

I hate to throw a spanner into the works, but isn't asserting that no one can possibly know anything at all about god, precisely the same sort of 'arrogance'?

And quite apart from that, how can you say no one can possibly know anything at all about god, if no one can possibly know anything at all about god? how do you know we can't know, in other words? When theists attempt to place their big pink elephant outside the reach of scrutiny (by claiming it's unknowable), they forget that this is itself a form of knowledge - which they've just claimed we can't possibly have. Damn shoelaces.

 

We're not talking about faith and opinions, when we're discussing what we actually know about God we're talking about facts and truth. At this point, we don't have any facts upon which anyone can say they know about God. It logically follows then then we do not know the truth either, to my mind the absence of facts leads to the inescapable conclusion that no one can know anything at all about God. At least not yet.

 

agreed. but I maintain that if god/s exist, we have no way of knowing if they're knowable. as tosser-ish as that sounds.

in the meantime, since you used the word arrogance when referring to someone who attempted to describe some aspect of god/s, does this mean you consider Christians horrifically arrogant? they always seem very happy to tell us precisely what god does and doesn't like, and how he works, and what motivates him, etc etc.

 

I'm not big on that side of Christianity, but IMHO there are positive aspects to that religion. And to every other religion.