Profound revelations in thought

I not only read the Bible as a child, I still have the Bible I read.

The difference is I had good teachers.

 

Like most they only read and remember the things they like or the verses that promote the same hatred as themselves espouse in the name of jesus.

 

Uh.....so you were never told about HELL?

You were never told as a child that unless you asked for forgiveness that you would go to HELL?

Yes....you were told this.

And I had a great childhood as I had two very smart, educated and capable parents who taught me that there are many different kinds of people who have different beliefs and that I didn't have to believe what they believed as that was up to ME.....but I should respect their beliefs.

And they should respect mine.

And asking questions and debating things was GOOD...not bad.

And anyone who's faith is so weak that they considered any debate about their beliefs or religious ideology was a person who really didn't have much faith at all.

AA

 

Teachers that made you just ignore all the parts about torment in the afterlife and God sending disasters?

 

No, they taught me that the Bible was not originally written in English, and that there are different Greek and Hebrew words that translate into "hell". If you guys are going to try to engage in a battle of wits at least come armed.

 

Debating things IS good, but you guys are not holding up your end of the log.Yesterday I read post after post of atheists asking me stupid questions based on their misconceptions of what they think I believe or what the Bible says. This is my personal favorite from yesterday:

This is so ridiculous I don't even know if they guy was serious.

 

I gave you the biblical reference. If you are a Christian why are you calling what believers claim is the word of God a lie because you don't like what it says about how "saved souls" will spend eternity in a giant golden cube on a waterless planet? It's your fairy tale, not mine. Read it.

If you want a better heaven you're going to have to get another religion. The biblical heaven is described in the Bible.

The Mormons have a good heaven. Each Mormon guy gets to be a god with his own planet and harem. He spends his time churning out babies to populate his private planet.

The muslim guys get a sweet deal. They get a 60 mile diameter pearl shell with all the goodies, like rivers of wine, a couple of 90 foot tall translucent virgins, a flock of women from hell, and a herd of cute boys. That's probably why the women remain virgins.

Other folks have their own heavens and hells so you should be able to pick one out that you like since you don't like the biblical ones.

 

...which has no resemblance to your description....

There aren't any believers who claim that, just you.

Nope, it's a figment of your imagination.

Already have.

 

As long as you're happy.

 

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm very happy if your unnamed denomination has decided to not take the parts about eternal punishment and lakes of fire literally. And no, this doesn't just have to do with the Greek and Hebrew words translated into English as hell.

Matthew 25:41 Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels
Matthew 25:46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

And yes, "punishment" (kolasis) can also be translated as "torment." Though I do have to tip my hat to my Biblical Universalist friends. They are correct to point out that the Greek here could be translated as "age long" rather than "eternal."

 

You are not talking to my denomination, you are talking to me. If you won't hear me what difference does my denomination make?

 

What did they teach you about Paul's Epistle to Titus 3:2?

 

We've already covered this, but I accept your surrender.

 

I left Christianity despite discovering that eternal torment is a false doctrine. The concept that a God sanctioned slavery, that an incestuous drunk was the only man found worthy to save from Sodom, that a crucifixion replaces eternal torment(as taught by the majority of churches), that Jews asking for different manna enraged this God to smite down thousands in anger, to actually have a chosen people, that defining a person as righteous or wicked is only based on ones belief in Jesus as lord and that the bible is filled with supernatural events that cannot be verified, yet there is zero events in modern history, leads me to believe the bible is Jewish fiction.

 

I've heard you just fine. You don't take the whole eternal torment thing literally. You were specifically talking about your religious education experience growing up, so I referenced the denomination that provided said education. Again, I think it is cool, I just don't know why you are so surprised that there are other Christian traditions, ones that Gorn and I have encountered, who take the eternal fire stuff literally.

 

Number one, my views on hell are my own. I had a Bishop once who I think may have been an annihilationist, but I can't say for sure. His views were his own.

Number two, I am not even sure that hell has anything to do with fire. It might be what it is, or it might be what it's like. The only thing I am sure of is that God haters will be eternally separated from God, because that is, after all, what they want. And that sounds like hell to me.

 

Excellent! So you aren't speaking for the Church in this instance. This wasn't originally about your views on hell, but what was being taught in Sunday schools. I'm fine with the shift, just pointing it out.

Which is fine; you just shouldn't be surprised by the idea that many other Christians take it literally.

Cool beans. I knew a Serbian Orthodox priest once who believed that everyone would be reunited with God after death -- for those people who wanted such a fate, that would be heaven. For "god haters," that would be Hell. Interesting point of view. I think I'd probably lean toward something like that if I were a Christian.

 

Absolutely!

I get sick of people saying don't talk religion or politics for argument reasoning, when no matter what the conversation is changed to, an argument breaks out. Even when drinking, I have seen more fights break out when not talking religion or politics, than I have while doing so. Matter fact in my life, I have not seen one fight (fist fight) from religion or politics while drinking.

 

You're very wrong on this. Not believing in the biblical God does not decide this. I would love for there to be a nice God and afterlife with him/it. I just do not find your God viable or nice. It is cultist to assume agnostics and athiest are God haters.

 

That Serbian Priests opinion might be a bridge too far, I am not sure it's supported by the text.

On the other hand, my own views have been shaped by Protestants of the sort these guys have been badmouthing. I don't always agree with them but when they're right, they're right.

 

He mostly relied on texts that implied God's omnipresence, and then argued that there couldn't be such a thing as true, total separation from God. I think the Cappadocian Fathers had a similar thought, though it is not really the accepted view of any of the Eastern Orthodox churches.

The Protestants in my neck of the woods are mostly fire-and-brimstone Baptists, so Hell is kind of their shtick, but I think I've heard similar things from Lutherans and a few Methodists.

 

The Baptists have changed their tune over the past few years, most of the happy clappy megachurches I have been in have some kind of Baptist affiliation.

 

Technically you're right, not believing in God does not send you to hell, being a jerk sends you to hell. Not believing in God prevents you from receiving His Grace.

 

I hope you are an official representative of christianity, you will help those on the fence to see clearly what an mean spirited cultist Christian looks like.

Btw, you are an athiest to every other religion/God other than your proof less faith based religion. At this moment, I'm athiest to only one more than you. I am agnostic to the possibility of a real God, which you are not.

 

Do you guys just drag out "mean spirited" when you have nothing else to say?