Public school under fire for sending kids on field trip to creationist museum

http://www.nola.com/religion/index.ssf/2015/05/creationist_museum_field_trip.html

Glad that this was caught, and hope the people behind this were fired.

Public schools have no business presenting a religious fundamentalist belief as science - I feel bad for the kid who aspired to be a biologist but had his thesis rejected because he grew up reading about "Noah's Ark" in science textbooks.

 

How do you know God didn't create everything?

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how with evolution a new species comes about. For example, at some point an individual mutates and suddenly goes from say 20 chromosomes to 22, its the only member of its new 22 chromosome species, how does it breed? How does that mutation get passed along if it can't reproduce? Unless a lot of members of the original 20 chromosome species suddenly have the same mutation in their offspring, and the offspring are fertile, it seems there is no way to create that new species.

And why don't we see new species evolving today, or in the past several 100 years? People point to white moths that evolve from white to black, but that's adaptation, its still the same moth just a different color. Or antibiotic resistance, that's just adaptation not the evolution of a new species. There are a lot of examples of a species changing traits such as color, but its still the same species before and after.

To me it sounds like evolution is just the best biologists can come up with but its not complete by any means. And when challenged or asked hard questions, biologists are so afraid of religion they just circle the wagons and close their minds rather than actually examine their hypothesis like a real scientist.

 

You don't understand the difference between a literal interpretation of Genesis creation, and merely believing that a God may have brought the universe into existence. There are plenty of god believers who don't buy the idea that the story in Genesis was a literal event.

That's all well and good, but that doesn't mean that the belief that animals descended from Noah's Ark is a valid "alternative" theory. Evolution is actual science, creationism is just taking an ancient Biblical story and claiming it as literal truth regardless of what science shows.

 

That is not the point. We are talking about science, and that's not science.

The pillars of science are testable hypotheses, independent experimentation and observation, and repeated verification across time and space, under different conditions and in varying contexts.

And none of these apply to what you just said. "God created everything" is not a testable hypothesis. You can not design an experiment to prove or disprove it. You can not observe the results, and neither can anyone else.

That statement "God created everything" is conjecture, not science.

It should not be taught as science, no part of it is science.

Of course there is. There's at least half a dozen different ways, and which ones come into play at any given moment (in history or in a test tube) is a question for research.

We do. New species are being discovered and observed all the time. Ask any dog breeder how long it takes to engineer a new variety - the answer is "not long".

Once you have an actual testable hypothesis, feel free to then design an experiment, and share it with your peers so they too can replicate it.

That's how science works.

Anything else is just lumpy gravy.

 

Who cares as long as they are receiving a balanced education ?

 

I'd care because I wouldn't want my kid learning that the earth is 6,000 years old, or that humans and dinosaurs lived together.

Even if the tour is supposedly "secular" and removing direct references to Christianity, it's still teaching incorrect facts which are based on a literal interpretation of the book of Genesis rather than science.

 

Then don't depend entirely on someone else to raise and educate your children. People these days take no responsibility for their children's upbringing and think one field trip or lesson is going to while out 18 years of their own impact. It's crazy.

 

Religious myths taught as facts are not part of a balanced education.

 

That's ignoring the constitutional issue of religion being taught in schools. Teaching religious beliefs as fact in public schools violates the Constitution.

I think you have it backwards; if a parent wants their kid to learn about creationism in school, it's on them to sent their kid to a fundamentalist private school instead

The principle of the thing's still relevant here even if 1 field trip in theory wouldn't be enough to "brainwash" kids - I doubt a Jewish family would be happy if a "history" teacher took their kids for a trip on a Holocaust denial exhibit for example; their job is to teach history not promote a personal agenda, so they're not doing their job and misusing their position of authority

 

Keeping religion out of the public school system is taking responsibility for their children's upbringing. That's the whole point. Thankfully, there are people out there willing to stand up and take responsibility by fighting. I'm glad they won. I'm sure there are a multitude of churches that will take your kids to the museum. Leave my kids out of it.

 

alright lets ignore the fact that indoctrinating neighborhood children into a specific religion is wrong. And the idea that the earth is 6000 years old is about as ridiculous as saying the sun revolves around the earth, or that the earth itself is flat and asking why shouldn't children learn that or how do we "really" know it's true. Let's just look at the fact that this isn't even a widely held christian belief, most of this creationism nonsense comes from medieval christian cults in 14th century england, and has no scientific or historical bearing. In fact the pope and the vatican have denounced creationism as anti christian.

http://www.onenewsnow.com/church/20...volution-vatican-calls-creation-‘blasphemous’

 

Of course they are.

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Deal with it , the children certainly will. Kids are not porcelain(did I spell that right ?), challenging a child to question his lessons is not a bad thing.

 

Religion taught as fact, or taught as equal to science? No.

Teaching about religion in schools is one thing, but sending children to a creationist exhibit where creationism is taught as fact goes far beyond simply discussing religious beliefs.

 

If a field trip can wipe out 18 years of your influence , you're doing it all wrong.

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Its a field trip. 1. They have 18 years of science and your influence, lighten up. Did you tell your kids Santa brought presents when they were young ?

 

Nope, the Constitution specifies.that religious beliefs can't be taught as fact in public schools.

By that logic if an atheist went on a rant in class about how "Christians are stupid" and how their god doesn't exist, the parents should just "suck it up" and deal with it.

That would be like giving kids a lecture on how "the Illuminati did WTC" and saying that's just teaching him to "question" things. Biblical creationism is a theory which has evidence enough to qualify as an alternative theory to evolution; just because "someone somewhere" believes something doesn't make it equally valid in terms of evidence.

 

A parent can decide on their own whether or not to teach kids about Santa, or creation or not - it's the decision of the parents, not of schools. That's the key here.

And again you're basically saying that if a teacher took children to an atheist convention where the Bible was desecrated - that Christian parents should just "suck it up" because it "won't harm them".

 

Yeah of course . Kids will run into people who challenge their thinking and belief system. It males them stronger. An atheist questioning god is no different. Sure , a kid would have no problem disproving the illuminati theory and it would be a good introduction into people are crazy 101. Again , people need to take responsibility for their children's upbringing instead of depending on everyone else. A home lesson can correct a silly field trip and works as a good lesson. Lighten up.

 

That's why discussing religions and creation beliefs in a non-proselytizing format is fine, sure - but sending them to an exhibit where it's presented as fact in a school setting is a completely different ballpark

 

It will bring good dicussion and the kid will learn many lessons from that trip, as long as they are learning in school and at home. We really don't know the teachers attitude and how she.presented this as well.

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Homeschooling is your answer then if you want to shelter and con trip every aspect of your kids life. Block the Internet , take away television. Ban all books besides what you approve.

 

The creation exhibit is clearly presenting it as fact, so this isn't just some objective discussion about religious myths, it's something which belongs in a church, not a taxpayer-funded school.

I think homeschooling is the answer for people who want their kids to learn Biblical fundamentalism instead of science.

 

Its a single field trip , 1. If you want to censor your children and control every interaction in their life keep them at home. Its not even in the school since.... they went on a field trip! Why is it you think children are so weak and will have their world rocked by a single trip ? Do you think school is the only source of information they will have that challenges their belief system ? Heard of books ? Television? Internet ? Friends ?

 

I guess you think Christians should just be hunkie dorie then with their tax dollars being used to send kids to an atheist exhibition:

 

First off, the kids taking the field trip are quite a way from high school - they're third graders and quite susceptible to accepting any information at face value. It is also doubtful they know the difference between religion and science, let alone some of the history of creationists' attempts to have their religious beliefs taught as fact in public schools.

If anyone is interested, there was an interesting court case in Arkansas over 30 years ago that puts the entire creation/science debate in its proper place. It was called McLean v. Arkansas Board of Education and is a rather eye opening read. And for anyone interested in learning more about evolution, Talk Origins is a great place to start.

 

Why would any one be mad their child learned about a belief that has been in Western thought for thousands of years? Third grade is the perfect age to learn about the Creationist myths and parables. Third grade is the perfect age to begin learning how to critically think on these ideas and what they could mean. Where did they come from? Who? Why? Parents do need to play a role in a childs education, no?

 

but Christians are saying Sunday school is failing their kids, God is not letting them eat from the tree of knowledge, so they need the public school to do what their God can't do at their church... get them to read one story out of their bible