Pure Zionism by the right in Israel

You mean building settlements in area C of the Oslo accords? You don't see them building in areas A and B do you? No country owns the land.

 

Israeli Jews have seized land in Area B

 

And that was taken care of.

http://www.ibtimes.com/amona-settlement-ordered-demolished-supreme-court-israel-1767514

 

4 Israelis celebrated on 9-11 in NJ, and Netanyahu said that the attacks were "good for Israel"

 

WOw a whole 4 Israelis? Goodness Gracious lolz.

 

Area C covers 60 percent of the West Bank and includes the most fertile land and best water aquifers in the West Bank. This affects areas A and B since most of areas surrounding those areas are part of area C where it's impossible to build since those lands are classified as land reserves . The water aquifers does also affect area A and B since in the case of the first planned city of Rawadi being funded by a Palestinian billionaire businessman it was close to failing since Israel denied permission for the town to connect to a water pipe that goes across area C. Regarding Oslo Accords both sides are to blame with Palestinians in the form of settlements and house demolitions increasing during the talks. Robert Malley who was one of the American negoitatiors at camp david said it was a myth that Arafat was solely to blame for camp david failing. Shlomo Ben Ami former foreign ministry and one of the Israeli negotiators at the talks said if he was Arafat he wouldn't accept camp david offer. Regarding the person's plan to expel any Arab in Israel that he views as disloyal. Most countries including America and Europe would cut off support from Israel completely since they would be supporting a state conducting ethnic cleansing. Gaza disengagement was necessary since if Israel wants to be a Jewish and democratic state it can't have it. Also rockets have been fired from Gaza since 2001, 4 years before disengagement. Hamas always has been more popular in Gaza due to being extremely poor with 80% of Gazans depending on food aide from foreign agencies to live.
http://www.btselem.org/publications/summaries/201306_acting_the_landlord
www.btselem.org/gaza_strip/siege_tightening

 

Robert Malley who was one of the American negoitatiors at camp david said it was a myth that Arafat was solely to blame for camp david failing. Shlomo Ben Ami former foreign ministry and one of the Israeli negotiators at the talks said if he was Arafat he wouldn't accept camp david offer.

Interesting information... Thank you.

 

So are you saying that Arabs cant build there? That's why the EU built houses for the Arabs in Area C not long ago?

The city of Rawabi is being connected to water pipes, after the Israeli government agreed to connect it.

Source: http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Raw...s-doors-392402

Former president Clinton, wrote in his autobiography that to blame in the failing of the talks at Camp David was Arafat that didnt make counter-offer on Clinton and Barak's offers.

Israel was Jewish and a democracy before the disangagement.
There were talks in Israel to evecuate the villages there mostly because the Arabs started to attack Israeli civilians in the area of those villages and to attack Israeli soldiers.

BTW, let us not forget that disangegment was not only an evecuation of Israeli villages in Gaza, but also evecuation of 4 settlements in Judea and Samaria like Ganim, Kadim, Chumash and Sa-Nur + evecuation of military facilities in Northern Samaria like the military base "Dotan".

In the elections after the disangagement, Hamas wasnt won the majority of the votes in Gaza, but it was the Fatah who did. Which Hamas didnt like, so they throw Fatah from Gaza and kill Fatah supporters in the confrontation between the two between the years 2006 to 2007, which led Hamas to takeover Gaza strip.

 

Arabs can't build there since building permits for Palestinians are rarely approved. For example, 94% of permits between 2000 and 2007 were rejected which meant only 91 were approved. At the same time, 18,000 buildings were built for the settlements.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/200...hepalestinians

The city of Rawabi is being connected to water after Israel delayed it for a year. Before it was connected there was concern the project could fail. For example in this excerpt from an article “Bashar Masri, the Palestinian-American entrepreneur behind Rawabi, says he has lost $25 million (Dh91.80 million) in revenue because of the delay, with an additional $75 million in payments frozen until he delivers the homes.
The project received hundreds of millions of dollars in Qatari financing, but now Masri said he is dipping into his own assets and slashing production, laying off 2,000 construction workers, engineers and office employees.
“We’re on the verge of bankruptcy,” Masri said in an interview at his office in Rawabi. “It has permanently devastated the project financially.”
This shows the problem with Bennet’s one state solution by annexing area C and shows how much control Israel has over the Palestinians in areas B and A.
http://m.gulfnews.com/news/region/p...ian-housing-project-waits-for-water-1.1464544

Regarding camp david, while Arafat does have much to blame(also for oslo accords along with Israel from the Palestinian perspective not showing that it was ending the occupation, in retrospect one problem with oslo accords it didn’t say anything on final status issues ) like not offering counteroffers he wasn’t solely to blame. When you have former foreign ministry and one of the negotiations saying that he wouldn’t accept camp david offer if he was Palestinian that shows it wasn’t as generous of a deal as thought. A contiguous offer of 91% of West Bank with an addition 1%(some of it on a former toxic waste dump) land swap in return for Israel annexing 9% of West Bank is disputed since no formal map was drawn. Palestinian characterization of the offer show it divided into 3 cantons with by pass roads for settlements bypassing it. Dennis Ross one of the American negotiators at david disputes that and says it was a contiguous offer. The offer included outer Arab neighborhoods that was annexed after 67 like Abu Dis but not Arab neighborhoods in Jerusalem itself. Another negotiator Yossi Belin said “The mistake was to put all the blame on Arafat, not only because he did not deserve it," said Yossi Beilin, a former Israeli negotiator. "Maybe he deserved part and maybe it is true that the Palestinians did not initiate ideas, but it was a tactical mistake to put all the blame on one side.” Even Dennis Ross who gave a more favorable account of the camp david talks to Israel said “I am not one who believes that Chairman Arafat is against peace in principle. Nor am I one who believes that Palestinian negotiators made no concessions.” To be fair camp Taba offer was much better with Arab neighborhoods in East Jerusalem being included along with 94% of West Bank and 3% land swap to composite the Palestinians for Israel annexing 6% of West Bank in this proposal. However Taba offer was made weeks before Barak was defeated by Ariel Sharon and during last days of Clinton presidency. Unable to cut a deal and with time running short by imminent elections Israel left the talks with a joint statement being issued that
“the Israeli and Palestinian delegations conducted...deep and practical talks with the aim of reaching a permanent and stable agreement between the two parties...Given the circumstances and time constraints, it proved impossible to reach understandings on all issues, despite the substantial progress that was achieved in each of the issues discussed...The sides declare that they have never been closer to reaching an agreement and it is thus our shared belief that the remaining gaps could be bridged with the resumption of negotiations following the Israeli elections. The two sides take upon themselves to return to normalcy and to establish [a] security situation on the ground through the observation of their mutual commitments in the spirit of the Sharm e-Sheikh memorandum. The negotiation teams discussed four main themes: refugees, security, borders and Jerusalem, with a goal to reach a permanent agreement that will bring an end to the conflict between them and provide peace to both people...The Taba talks conclude an extensive phase in the Israeli-Palestinian permanent status negotiations with a sense of having succeeded in rebuilding trust between the sides...The two sides express their gratitude to President Hosni Mubarak...They also express their thanks to the European Union...The sides declare that they have never been closer to reaching an agreement and it is thus our shared belief that the remaining gaps could be bridged with the resumption of negotiations following the Israeli elections...."
http://www.robat.scl.net/content/NAD/negotiations/neg_camp_david/nicholas_kristof.php
http://www.nybooks.com/contributors/robert-malley/
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/the_earthling/2002/04/wasarafat_the_problem.html
http://fair.org/extra-online-articles/the-myth-of-the-generous-offer/
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2001/sep/20/camp-david-an-exchange/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taba_Summit
http://www.democracynow.org/2006/2/14/fmr_israeli_foreign_minister_if_i

I know that the disengagement included several small settlements in West Bank. It appears that Sharon was also going to pursue another disengagement from east of the fence in West Bank which wasn’t implemented.

Israel is a democratic and Jewish state but not at the same time. Certainly it’s within green lines. It’s not at the same time however, since Israel governs 2.5 million Palestinians who aren’t citizens in the West Bank and 1.8 million in Gaza(Israel still controls the borders with exception of rafah along with airspace and territorially waters, to be fair completely open borders is not possible as long as Hamas controls it) . According to these numbers there are actually more Arabs residing in West Bank, Israel(1.95 million like numbers before from CIA world factbook), and Gaza Strip for a total of 6.25 million. Currently Israel has 7.8 million people with 1.95 million of their citizens Arabs(meaning that Israel controls 5.85 million Jews while controlling 6.25 million Arabs most of which aren’t citizens). According to Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics by 2016 6.42 million Jews and 6.42 million Arabs will reside in Gaza, Israel, and West Bank. According to them Arabs will exceed Jews by 2020 7.14 million Arabs to 6.87 million Jews. According to “data from the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT) for 2014, there are 2.754 million Palestinian in the West Bank and 1.73 million in Gaza. (The COGAT figures apparently do not include East Jerusalem Arabs.) With the CBS statistic of 1.713 million Arabs living in Israel (including East Jerusalemites), the total number of Palestinians and Israeli Arabs reaches 6.197 million, very close to the number of Jews living in Israel.” According to these numbers than the situation warned by Israel’s founders like David Ben Gurion has been reached.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/
http://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-say-jews-will-be-a-minority-by-2016/

Regarding the 2006 elections, unfortunately Hamas(didn’t realize until looking at result of election Hamas won partly by plurality of votes to receive majority of seats in Palestinian Legislative Council,out of 66 seats won by proportionally voting 44% or 29 seats out of 66 by Hamas and 45 or 68% out of 66 won by multi member constituencies ) did well both in West Bank and Gaza. Although it did better in Gaza. In Gaza out of 5 multi member constituencies only 1 of the constituency(rafah a border town with Egypt)did Fatah win a majority. In West Bank out of 11 constituencies Fatah won a majority in 2(Jericho,Qalqilya) and tied in another(Jenin). Fatah also won seats reserved for Christians in Jerusalem, Bethlehem, and Ramallah.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_legislative_election,_2006
http://web.archive.org/web/20090205...ctions.ps/pdf/result_seat_distribution_EN.pdf

 

In 2013 Israel promoted a consetruction of an Arab city in the district of Jericho. Israel took 2000 state lands that were belong to the Israeli place, Regional Council of Jordan Valley. The Civil Administration, that works on that project, takes thousand od Arabs that live without premits on lands and let them live in that city near Jericho.
In the same year, several outline plans was promoted to make the illegal grip of lands by Arabs (not all) legal.

BTW- your link isnt working.

This is not condradicting what I wrote. Israel still approved that Rawabi would be connected to water.

This is what Bil Clinton, former president of the US and the 3rd side on the peace talks in Camp David.

Barak offered was:
1. 97% of the West Bank and 100% of Gaza will be part of the Arab country.
2. Jerusalem will be the shared capital of the Arabs and the Jews- which means East Jerusalem will be part of the Arab state (which means 75% of the old city will be part of the Arab country), as they wanted and still want.
3. Removal of settlements.
4. Return of undisclosed amount of "Palestinian refugees" into Israel + financial compensation for all who does not include in that return.

Here is a video about what Barak offered at Camp David, when the source to this offer is Dennis Ross, lead U.S. nagotiator at Camp David:
[video=youtube;HcSYUItDdZc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcSYUItDdZc[/video]

Here is a picture that shows you what was the actual proposal in Camp David was:


At one side you can see the "Palestinian" characterization of the proposal, and at the other side you can see the actual proposal.
This picture was according to Dennis Ross.

Barak did offered him that East Jerusalem will be part of the Arab state. Abu Dis is in East Jerusalm, thus Arab neiborhoods in Jerusalem was offered.

And also Taba, as Camp David, the sides didnt sign on an perament agreement.

Israel is not governs 2.5 millions Arabs, the 2.5 million Arabs lives in Area A and B, which the PA is the one who control it. In Area B the civil control is by the PA while the IDF is the responsible on the security issues in AreaB, it was agreed on in Oslo.
In Gaza there is Hamas that control there. Israel after the disangagement let the Arabs in Gaza elect their own leaders, which they did.
The Siege you are talking about, came after Hamas tookover Gaza and anounced that every agreement that were signed between the Arabs and Israel are not Hamas obligation to respect it. After that anouncement, Israel made the siege.

Not quit.
The Arab demography is lower then the Jewish one.
According to the CIA factbook, the Arab fertility rate in the West Bank is 2.83 and the Jewish fertility rate in the West Bank is 5.55. And if we will connact the fertility rate of the Jewish populationi in the West Bank to the fertility rate of Israel, we get fertility rate higher they the Arab one, which makes us see that the fertility rate of the Jewish population cannot be oin 2020 lower then the Arab one.

Source`1: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/we.html
Source`2: http://cbs.gov.il/shnaton63/st03_11x.pdf

It is not dontradicting what I provided you.

 

those are not true.......I have tried to read this thread but
1. No one seems to know what Zionism is.
2. No one in this thread seems to understand the reality on the ground in Israel.
3. Facts seem to mean nothing if they don't fit the narrative one is pushing.

It is much simpler than people think and it ain't about religion.

 

I didn't know about a city being constructed near Jericho. That's good news and hope it does happen. However, according to this article defense ministry Moshse Yaalon suspended the plan after being criticized by settlers and right wing. That would explain why I haven't found any news of this plan past 2013 and why it hasn't been implemented. Unfortunately don't see it being implemented with the next coalition.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/168021#.VQ5FuGZX-CU

Btw the reason for illegal building since permits are most of time denied. Sorry about the link not working. Here is a link that should work
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/apr/15/israelandthepalestinians
it mentions the 94% permits denied statistics causing only 91 permits to be approved while 18,472 housing units built in the settlements between 2000 and 2007. During that time, 1,663 Palestinian buildings were demolished while 199 were demolished in the settlements.

I mentioned that it's disputed if the camp david offer was contiguous. As mentioned there were no former maps for the camp david offer. I also mentioned that Dennis Ross one of the American negotiators that according to him it was a contiguous offer. To be fair because of that it probably was contiguous, even with that assumption I could see why a Palestinian would not accept camp david offer. As mentioned before Shlomo Ben Ami one of the Israeli negotiators and former foreign ministry said if he was in Arafat's position he wouldn't accept it. From a Palestinian perspective after seeing settlements expand and home demolition I could see why it would hard not to accept Israel annexing 9%(as Malley points out from a Palestinian perspective they were already compromising by agreeing to 22% of mandatory Palestine with Gaza and West Bank) of West Bank with 1% land swap that includes land formerly on a toxic land dump. Abu Dis was one of the neighborhoods annexed to East Jerusalem after the six day war it's not actually in East Jerusalem proper. Again considering that offer didn't include sovereignty(Muslim and Christian quarter would have administrative autonomy and Arab neighborhoods would have civil and administrative autonomy) over Arab neighborhoods inside East Jerusalem that would be an offer most Palestinians would reject. Malley's account of camp david is more critical of Israel than either Dennis Ross or Martin Indyik; however Malley did criticize Arafat also and both Dennis Ross and Martin Indyik have defended Malley saying
"Over the past several weeks, a series of vicious, personal attacks have been launched against one of our colleagues, Robert Malley, who served as President Clinton’s special assistant for Arab–Israeli affairs. They claim that he harbors an anti-Israeli agenda and has sought to undermine Israel’s security. These attacks are unfair, inappropriate, and wrong. They are an effort to undermine the credibility of a talented public servant who has worked tirelessly over the years to promote Arab–Israeli peace and US national interests. They must stop.
We have real differences among us about how best to conduct US policy toward the Middle East and what is the right way to build a lasting two-state solution that protects Israel’s security. But whatever differences do exist, there is no disagreement among us on one core issue that transcends partisan or other divides: that the US should not and will not do anything to undermine Israel’s safety or the special relationship between our two nations. We have worked with Rob closely over the years and have no doubt he shares this view and has acted consistent with it. "
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2008/mar/20/in-defense-of-robert-malley/
Again I'm not saying Arafat did wrong he did plenty wrong(so has both sides) but its unfair to entirely blame camp david on him.

Israel does govern 2.5 million in the West Bank. As mentioned Israel controlling area C affects both area B(which Israel does have military control) and area A. Since area C covers 60% of West Bank it includes the most fertile lands and water aquafilers. In addition land reserves around most of areas B and A cuts off development. We don't contradict each other on rawabi with both agreeing Israel is providing water to Rawabi and that the project is moving forward. However I'm just pointing out that it was done with much delay causing the project to be at risk. Now it's not at risk. I was pointing out the effects of delaying the water like laying off 2,000 employees, causing him to lose 25 million dollars in revenue and 75 million frozen himself stating that he nearly went bankrupt. Regarding Gaza, Israel still controls the borders which means its still an occupying power over it. The blockade begin in 2006 after Hamas won elections and tightened after Hamas took over Gaza in 2007. Again open borders between Israel and Gaza is not possible at this point. However it could be argued that the blockade is excessive and fueling support for Hamas. Before the blockade, Israel let in 10,400 trucks of goods enter Gaza. Since the blockade it has been limited to 2,500 per month After the blockade nearly 4,000 types of goods were banned with blockade softly loosening blockade to allow 40 type of goods to enter Israel. Israel doesn't publish a list of what's allowed so a list is complied by Palestinian liaison officers. With control of borders that makes it very difficult for Palestinians to leave(only in some humanitarian cases) which is why it has been called an open air prison. As mentioned these numbers total means that Israel is a country where they are the ones that have great control over more Arabs(again most of them not citizens) than Jews.
West Bank and Gaza strip according to CIA world factbook has higher demographics with Israel's population growth rate 1.46% and births 18.44 per 1,000. While West Bank's growth is 1.99% and birth rate is 23.41 per 1,000 and Gaza's growth rate is 2.91% and birth rate is 30.2 per 1,000. To be fair modernization in the West Bank will probably slow growth rate.

Regarding 2006 elections we don't contradict each other. Hamas unfortunately did well in both West Bank(slightly less by winning 1 more district and another district evenly split) and Gaza.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/oct/17/israeli-military-calorie-limit-gaza
http://gisha.org/en-blog/goods-entering-gaza/
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/06/09/95621/israeli-document-gaza-blockade.html

 

The defence minister suspended it, but only to learn more about it, Ya'alon dont want to decide hasty conclusions like canceling the progrem as the right-wingers want.
I think It's good way to handle things, to learn and study something that aint familier to him and then act. Like the article says:

Of course that it doesnt mean that it doesnt happen (the consetrucation of this city).

This statistics are according "Peace Now", but I found a lot of errors in thier written reports over the years, therefore, I would like you to give more relaible source.

There are maps, maybe not from the actual time of Camp David, but there are maps, and maps from a lead U.S nagotiator that were in Camp David. He drawn what the Arabs understood from the offer, and what was the real offer.

So are you saying that the "Palestinians" dont want the West Bank and Gaza as their state?
So are you saying that the "Palestinians" dont want East Jerusalem as their capital?
So are you saying that the "Palestinians" dont want the removal of settlements?
So are you saying that the "Palestinians" dont want Return of undisclosed amount of "Palestinian refugees" into Israel?

If not, then it was very odd to not accept Barak's offer, after all Barak offered Arafat everything he wanted.

Barak offered them to stop building and removing settlements from the West Bank, the same thing that they wanted and still want, and even when Barak offered them what they wanted, they rejected it.
The Arabs rejected an offer that said that their state will be with 100% of Gaza and 97% of the West Bank. So by that it will not be 9% from the West Bank annexed to Israel.

Wait!

So by that (esspecially the word "compromising"), it lets us know that the Arabs didnt really wanted a "Palestinian state" under 67' lines, but they wanted all of "Mandatory Palestine", and in Camp David they compromised by agreeing to 22% of it, which means that they really didnt like the idea of having a state in the 67' lines.

Secondly, lets not forget as well that in Rhodes agreements, it discribes there, that the Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary. Which means that what Barak offered to Arafat was agaisnt Rhodes agreements. As Prof. Talia Einhorn in her article: "The Status of Palestine/Land of Israeland Its Settlement Under Public International Law" says:

Source: http://www.acpr.org.il/english-nativ.../einhorn-1.htm

But that's what Barak offered. He offered East Jerusalem as their capital, to be part of their future state, but of course they rejected it. Rejected something they wanted and still wants.

Ok and....? I mean, so they defend their colleague and...?

It's Clinton that blame Arafat.

Not really. To area A no one who is an Israeli cant enter there (even the military cant etnter area A).
In Area B the IDF is responsible on the security issues there, as it was agreed on in Oslo. It is a reality that Oslo made, that the Arabs made by agreeing to sign with Israel on Oslo.

Israel is not governs all the Arabs in the West Bank (all the 2.5 million), because Israel isnt controling over all the West Bank, there is the PA that controls Area A and in Area B which the PA has civil control.

Thats why Arabs use the same roads and getting water from Israel, as it was agreeing on in Oslo.

Israel suspended it, right, but at the bottom line and the existing reality of today is that Rawabi is facing a grand opening and is connected to water. If Rawabi will fulfill its founder's inspiration of being terror-free city, then this project is quit nice.

There is huge support in Gaza for Fatah organization. Just couple years ago there was a huge demonstration of supporting Fatah in Gaza, so based on this act the support for Hamas is not so huge as it thought it is. Yes there is support for Hamas, and yes people when there is media there, people there show support for Hamas, but that is why Hamas is killing people on the street. Hamas did it also between one casefire and another in the last operation.

Let us not forget as well that Israel is transfering goods inside Gaza, the responsibility of spreading it to the people is in the hands of Hamas, which is making high taxs over them.

That's because an intaligance that said that Hamas used alot of the goods that Israel let inside Gaza to terror acts, like the concrete that Israel is still transfering.

Israel is not controling all Gaza's borders. Israel is only controling over the border Gaza has with Israel, the other border is with Egypt, which Egypt doesnt allow Gazens to enter Egypt, while Israel is letting Gazens work inside of her like inside it's borders with Gaza.

It's already slowing growth rate.

 

That article was from May 2013 and haven't found any more recent articles which means Yaalon has been considering it for nearly 2 years. I hope the city happens but it doesn't apply likely.

Permit approval for Palestinians(70% of area C is banned for construction due to areas like land reserves and live fire zones) in Area C is rare with house demolition a result due to buildings being built(yet action is rarely taken against 105 illegal Israeli outposts which are illegal even by Israeli law) without a permit. Here is more sources.
http://rhr.org.il/eng/area-c-planning-appeal/
www.btselem.org/planning_and_building
http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/aboutisra... unauthorized outposts - talya sason adv.aspx

What the Palestinians wanted was return of Gaza and all of West Bank(with land swaps to composite for any Israeli annexation). The Moratinos non-paper by EU official Miguel Moratinos is considered by both sides as fair representation of what happened at Taba summit. During those talks the Palestinians presented a map with Israeli annexation of 3 percent of West Bank in return for 3 percent land swap to the Palestinians. Most of the Palestinians would like to see the settlements which are considered illegal under international law to go. However that is not practical. The settlement blocs will stay with Israel, that is something even Meretz recognizes. During Taba talks Palestinians initially accepted Israel annexing Ma'aleh Adumim and Givat Ze'ev settlement blocs by East Jerusalem. However, retracted its readiness after it didn't want to include land and Palestinian population around the settlement bloc. During talks between Abbas and Olmert that nearly led to a deal Abbas agreed for Israel to retain all of the settlement blocs except for Ariel. Regarding refugees. During talks at Taba there was progress reached with number mentioned in a return of return to Israel only 25,000 to 40,000. While obviously some Palestinians with Hamas being an obvious example want all of Israel most want to live in a state alongside Israel. Again Abu Dis after the six day war was annexed to East Jerusalem an annexation the international community doesn't recognize. The camp david deal did not include important neighborhoods like Silwan and Sheik Jaffah.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/eu-description-of-the-outcome-of-permanent-status-talks-at-taba-1.52973
http://www.haaretz.com/news/a-negative-balance-of-return-1.52905
http://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-most-israelis-palestinians-support-2-state-solution/
http://www.haaretz.com/news/dispute-over-ma-aleh-adumim-1.52956


Israel controls most of Gaza's borders with the expectation of rafah crossing points. In 2010 after years of banning objects like mineral water, clothes, and shoes until April 2010 Israel announced all civilian goods would be permitted. However there are still problems like civilian on the border being shot at by Israelis beyond the 300 meter no go zone between Gaza and Israel. Another issue is Israeli navy attacking Palestinian fishermen despite as part of the ceasefire agreement allowed to fish from 3 to 6 nautical miles.
http://www.dci-palestine.org/documents/civilians-shot-gaza-buffer-zone
http://www.theecologist.org/News/ne...scalates_deadly_attacks_on_gazas_fishers.html
http://www.theecologist.org/News/ne...scalates_deadly_attacks_on_gazas_fishers.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/30_04_10_gaza.pdf

 

You cant know that. It can as well do exist eventually.

One of your sources says:

It's quit the opposite of what you are saying.

Arab illegal building is been destroyed as Israeli illegal building is been destroyed.
Are you saying that ab Arab illegal building needs to be continued and the Israeli one needs to be continued destroy?

This is what was suggested to them, yet they rejected it.

The settlements are not considered illegal under international law.
According to the 4th GC article 49 says:

Source: https://www.icrc.org/ihl/WebART/380-600056

This is what everyone use to justify their claim that the settlements are illegal, but it is not the case. Israel has never forcible transfered or deported it's civilians into the West Bank, the people that live there, are doing it because they want to and not because Israel wanted them to live there, thus it is legal.

In Camp David Barak suggested a return of undisclosed amount of "Palestinian refugees" into Israel + financial compensation for all who does not include in that return, and yet even with that offer, Arafat rejected.
The Arabs even rejected a return of undisclosed amount of "refugees" into Israel. So if they rejected it, how could you axpect them to agree on 40,000?

Hamas wants all of Israel like Fatah (PLO) wants all of Israel.
Two of their charters say that "mandatory Palestine" will be liberated only by armed strugle:
According to PLo charter:

According to Hamas cherter:

 

any settlement that was built with confiscated private land, and not purely for security purposes, is illegal under international law.

this is the finding of the Israeli Supreme Court.

- - - Updated - - -

when was this?

Israel never offered 97% of the West Bank.

 

Very good and to the point VIDEO...

 

The left prefers cheap shots to actually understanding the complexities of a country that can’t be summed up with a keffiyah and a protest sign. After their election defeat, Obama and the media have decided to reduce Israel to Netanyahu and Netanyahu to the devil. It’s the easy way out, but it fails to take account of men like Ayoub Kara or Father Naddaf, of the Likud landslide in Arab-al-Naim and of Lieberman’s wins in Arab towns and villages. The Jews and Arabs are more complex than the left would like them to be.

 

What was offered and rejected with no counter offer.

* Israeli withdrawal from 95 percent of the West Bank (Judea and Samaria) and 100 percent of the Gaza Strip

* The creation of a Palestinian state in those areas

* The removal of isolated settlements that would be transferred to Palestinian control

* Slices of Israeli land to be included in the Palestinian state to compensate for the percentage of the West Bank to become Israeli

* Palestinian control over parts of Jerusalem including most of the Old City

* "Religious Sovereignty" over the Temple Mount (rather than Israeli sovereignty, which had been in effect since 1967)

President Clinton, and others who participated, put the blame for the failure of the talks squarely on Arafat and the Palestinian negotiators for declining and not making any counteroffers or continuing the negotiation.

 

The Israeli Supreme Court is using Article 49 from the 4th GC to explain why the settlements are illegal, but of course Article 49 is not applicble because Israel is not transfering it's citizens into the West Bank.

According to Article 55 in te Huege convention:

Source: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hague04.asp#art55

According to that, if you are regarding Israel as an occupeir, then Article 55 says that Israel can enjoy "the fruits of the labour" from the properties that belong to the other side. Also Israel can lease such lands or cultivate them.

Barak offered such a thing to Arafat at Camp David.

 

I didnt refer it as the court's policy.c

According to Article 55 in the Huege convention:

Source: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_cent...ue04.asp#art55

According to that, if you are regarding Israel as an occupeir, then Article 55 says that Israel can enjoy "the fruits of the labour" from the properties that belong to the other side. Also Israel can lease such lands or cultivate them.

According to one of your sources:

Which means that Israel has until 2016 to evecuate Amona. Israel has time until the ruling of the Court regarding the evecuation of Amona will wear off, be patient.

You are saying "here is an article", but I cant find it in this comment. Please provide the article.

It doesnt contradict anything. There are modern western democracies in the world that made wrost things then the conflict, and still they refering as modren western democracies. Like the Brits and when they spent some time in India, America at the times of the Apartheid until the end of the 60's (about the treatment of the blacks, yeah?), Spain with the Inquisition, Germany with the Holocaust, Russia and Stalin which he killed his own people, Mossolini and Italy and the list goes on.

The modern times started from the end of the 15th century. All of those actions are included in the modern time.
According to your logic, also all those countries cant be modern western democracies.

Israel had evecuated alot of settlements, like Migron, Ganim, Kadim, Humas, Sha-Nor, the Ulpana in Beit El etc. Israel already suggested to the Arabs to stop the settlements in Camp David by giving them 97% of the West Bank, and yet they didnt want it.

And yet Article 49 of the 4th GC is not applicble here, because Israel is not transfering or forcebly or deporting its population to the territory, thus Article 49 is not applicble, as I already showed you.

What I showed you about the offer was according to Dennis Ross, a man who you relied on in your previous comments. Are you saying now that what he said it was not true?

As I said and showed you already, East Jerusalem was indeed suggested to them.

So are you saying that:
1. 97% of the West Bank and 100% of Gaza will be part of the Arab country.
2. Jerusalem will be the shared capital of the Arabs and the Jews- which means East Jerusalem will be part of the Arab state (which means 75% of the old city will be part of the Arab country), as they wanted and still want.
3. Removal of settlements.
4. Return of undisclosed amount of "Palestinian refugees" into Israel + financial compensation for all who does not include in that return.

Is bed? This is what the Arabs wanted and now delcere they want.

Their charter shows different picture.

According to your source that shows the PLO charter- http://pac-usa.org/the_palestinian_charter.htm, it shows the same picture that I provided here:

Are you saying that when they say that an armed struggle is the only way to liberate "mandatory Palestine" is a call for peace? a call to end the conflict?

It is says that, read your source and you will find out that it is written:

Amnasty said about those kind of eyewitnesses:

Source: http://elderofziyon.blogspot.co.il/2014/05/amnesty-researcher-admits-that.html#.VRDEFjGsXT8

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Your article says also that they got shot at in Gaza buffer zone, which is of course restricted area to civilians.

 

sorry, but Barak was in no position to make an true peace offer while he was in such a close race for PM.

no peace offer means anything unless it is supported by political power.

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sorry, but the Israeli Supreme Court said that its illegal for an Occupying Power to confiscate privately-owned land in Occupied territory, for the use of civilian-only settlements.

most of the settlements are for civilian purposes only

 

sorry, but Barak never offered 97% of the West Bank to Palestine.

 

Barak at Camp David was the Israeli PM. Camp David began on July 2000, Barak risgned from been a PM in December 2000, therefore, while Camp David, he had political power.

As I wrote to you:
The Israeli Supreme Court is using Article 49 from the 4th GC to explain why the settlements are illegal, but of course Article 49 is not applicble because Israel is not transfering it's citizens into the West Bank.

According to Article 55 in te Huege convention:

According to that, if you are regarding Israel as an occupeir, then Article 55 says that Israel can enjoy "the fruits of the labour" from the properties that belong to the other side. Also Israel can lease such lands or cultivate them.

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He was at Camp David.
Here is a video that shows what Barak offered at Camp David, when the source of this offer is Dennis Ross, a leas U.S nagotiator in Camp David:
[video=youtube;HcSYUItDdZc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcSYUItDdZc[/video]