Ranked results of national healthcare comparison

Discussion in 'Health Care' started by LafayetteBis, Aug 9, 2021.

  1. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    By the Commonwealth Fund, Healthcare Systems by country comparative results (2013):

    [​IMG]
    PS: The US is not even in the "Top 10" (consider its comparative per capita cost on the bottom line). But the analysis is really-and-truly "dated"!
    PPS: NOW I understand why so many yanks go to live in Canada!!!!
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2021
  2. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    :D:D:D

    Australia is in……..:p

    As always we could possibly do better but in many ways I would rather be in a system that believes there is room for improvement than one that thinks it is perfect
     
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  3. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A MORE RECENT COMPARATIVE ANALYSIS

    And a more recent ranking here:Countries With The Best Health Care Systems, 2021

    1 South Korea
    2 Taiwan
    3 Denmark
    4 Austria
    5 Japan
    6 Australia
    7 France
    8 Spain
    9 Belgium
    10 United Kingdom
    11 Netherlands
    12 Finland


    But the assessment is made over a much larger number of countries! (89 to be exact.)

    Still, the European Union countries are looking pretty good!

    PS: The US was 30th and Canada 23rd.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2021
  4. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    These ranked results can be a little misleading in terms of quality of care.

    What they are really mostly measuring is poverty, portions of the population without access to good care.

    For example, the US probably has some of the best quality of healthcare in the world - if you can pay - but gets ranked very low in these lists compared to many other moderate income countries.

    And once again, I will point out these lists are a little cherry-picked. Mostly all White English-speaking or Western European countries, with a few Northeast Asian countries.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2021
  5. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    THE TRUTH ABOUT HEALTHCARE IN AMERICA IS IN THE DETAILS

    Wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong. The studies were performed as professionally as would be allowed. Such studies are not an exact-science - but it is better than nothing at all.

    And not worth a debate - private-medecine is the pits and the lifespan figure tells the ultimate truth. For the US vs France, for instance:

    From here: Length of Life Compared: France and the US

    [​IMG]

    Furthermore, from the study:

    The analysis US vs the European Union would be very interesting, because the data from both entities are "compatible" in terms of economic quantities.The sole real difference between them being that France is almost wholly a National Healthcare Service, whilst the US is only partially that type of service. (Medicare/Medicaid).

    From the Brookings Institute here:

    And it is worth noting that the Replicant Party "went all out" to prevent total-healthcare nationalization under the Obama administration thus keeping its comparatively much-higher-cost present version generally in place ...
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2021
  6. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You did not explain or present anything that would show why what I stated was wrong.

    Maybe you are misunderstanding the exact meaning of what I stated?

    What I mean is, if there's 20% of the population who cannot afford access to good medical treatment, that's not going to show up well in the overall average statistics. It will really pull the statistical average down. Poverty can also reduce life expectancy in other ways and lead to increased rates of health problems. The US has a higher poverty rate than many other countries on that list.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2021
  7. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because that is called "stirring the shat"!

    If you had read aptly the article you would have known who did the analysis and how. It was a study done professionally - and if you don't like the results do your own AND PRESENT IT HERE ...
     
  8. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I didn't say I didn't like the analysis. I just said we have to be aware of the type of things the analysis is actually looking at, and what could be the cause of those things, and how indicative those particular statistics really are of the quality of healthcare, and even what we actually mean when we say "quality of healthcare of a country".

    You don't seem to want to think about what I am saying.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2021
  9. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You didn't even provide a link to the analysis (the one in the Opening Post).

    Bet anyway, let's see what type of specific things it looked at:

    Analysis of 71 performance measures across five domains - access to care, care process, administrative efficiency, equity, and health care outcomes - drawn from Commonwealth Fund international surveys conducted in each country and administrative data

    Administrative Efficiency, Access to Care, Equity, Care Process, Health Care Outcomes, How We Measured Performance
    - The access to care domain encompasses two subdomains: affordability and timeliness. how quickly patients can obtain information, make appointments, and obtain urgent care after hours.
    - preventive care, safe care, coordinated care, and engagement and patient preferences. The preventive care subdomain includes three survey items related to counseling by health professionals on healthy behaviors, three OECD measures of mammography screening and influenza and measles vaccination
    A lot of these things to me seem very politically biased, in favor of more socialized healthcare systems.

    For example, a country could get more points for just education and having higher vaccination rates than it would for actually treating patients who do have a problem, regardless of end health outcome.

    And then this study accords points for "equity" even though that doesn't necessarily even have anything directly to do with health care outcomes.

    Look, I don't disagree with you that the US very likely has poorer health outcomes overall than those other particular selected countries on the list, but it's obvious that ranking analysis was put together by whacky political progressives in a manner that wasn't totally systematically logical. It just includes lots of things that were "feel-good" to them.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2021
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  10. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Bollocks! It's not wacky and neither are the people who created the method.

    Enough is enough - moving right along ... !
     
  11. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I say yes. I actually took the time to look at that study and go through what types of things they were looking at.

    I admitted the "rankings" of that study are probably right, but still the study itself is chalk full of wackiness.
    You seriously going to tell us that according points for "equity" is not wacky?
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2021
  12. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    Even if they weren't, they're wholly subjective measures.

    But, yeah, if you have a socialized healthcare system, you automatically get a 25 point handicap.
     
  13. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Blah-blah-blah ....
     
  14. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I know, actually getting into the tedious details would require a lot of thinking power.
     
  15. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Rather, patience with your manner of "debating".

    Moving right along ...
     
  16. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's what debates are all about!

    We can only debate certain subjects superficially because their complexity is great. Healthcare is one just subject.

    What we can do, however, (as regards healthcare) is compare lifespans of countries, because that is where the "proof is in the pudding" ...
     
  17. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh no... Don't you think those lifespans may be caused by other factors?
    Race, demographics, culture, eating habits, lifestyle habits, climate, economic factors, poverty, etc...

    Healthcare would only be one factor in all that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2021
  18. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That remains to be seen because we've not done the analysis on a sufficiently large scale.

    All we have so far are life-span (death rates) to go by. I suggest that is not nearly enough to understand the basics of "health well-being".

    One aspect is for sure - eating outrageously the way we do is NOT in the best interests of national longevity ...
     

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