Religious discussion

So why don't you stop diversifying? People don't like it. Why are you forcing it on the nation?

That is where the totalitarianism comes in. You want, for God only knows what reason, to force people to live in ways they don't want to live. Nobody is eager to have Somali refugees in his community.

 

If it wasn't Somalis it would be someone else and eventually, you'd be deporting me because I'm Catholic. If you don't like Somalis you don't have to associate with them in or on your property but you don't own the public areas of this country and people from other nations have as much right to be here and use them as you do.

What's totalitarian is to force everyone who you don't like to leave the country.

 

I like Catholics, as a rule.

But I want to know why you like Somalis.

I also want to know why you want to force diversity.

I just want to force everyone who entered illegally to leave the country and shut down refugee entrance.

 

I don't like anybody

But I do recognize that there are other people in the world and I can't have them all thrown out of the country. People who are here illegally should leave or try to become legal. Refugees are legal so not a legitimate concern of mine.

 

And if illegals don't leave they should be thrown out, right?

 

Unless something else can be done that's fair. What if somebody had treated your ancestors like that?

 

Because at least one of the people discussing religion is an idiot. The one that gets mad.

 

Its pretty rare that both participants know how to have this discussion with enough humility and mutual respect, that it has the hallmarks for success. Usually somebody wants to 'win' more than he wants to learn.

 

We were united by WWII. We were not any more uniform in terms of race or religion then than we were in the 1960's.

 

We are much less uniform. The USA as 89% white in the 1950's. Then the Democrats changed the immigration laws increasing diversity and divisiveness leading to the extremely unpleasant situation we have today. I am willing to think this was an honest blunder, but there is no excuse for continuing to believe that "diversity is our strength" when we see the increased unhappiness attributable to diversity.

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"The white population of the United States increased by 17.5 percent between 1950 and 1960, as compared with 26.7 percent for the nonwhite population, so that white persons constituted 88.6 percent of the total population in 1960 and 89.3 percent in 1950. Thus, the fairly large difference in decennial rates of growth produced a rather small change in percentage composition."

https://census.gov/library/publications/1961/dec/pc-s1-10.html

In the 1950's and 60's about 95% of the population was Protestant or Catholic. Now that percentage is down to 57%

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1690/religion.aspx

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Increasing diversity = increasing divisiveness.

Can you explain to me why you favor diversity when it has led to nothing but increased social strife?

 

Discussions about religion become so heated because some people link their identity to their religious beliefs, so when you question their beliefs you are questioning who and what they are, and then the discussion becomes personal.

You see the same thing happen around here with the rigid ideologues who tie their identities to their philosophical and political views. Things get personal and heated real quick when you question and criticize their views.

 

Thanks for noting that there was very little change in diversity in the WWII to 1960s. It's hard to change the composition of a large population like that of the USA in a short period of time.

The major issue we had with diversity into the 1960's had to do with black citizens of America being treated like crap, blowing up churches, etc.

This was not a matter of increasng diversity. It was a matter of justice for American citizens, including those who fought for America in WWII.

And, then we entered the Vietnam war, which was another significant divide in America - that had nothing to do with racial or religious diversity.

 

Having shifted from a belief in Christianity to atheism, I have been on both sides of these debates. While not the only reason, I think it comes down to a protection of one’s ancestors. For a Christian to claim that there is a heaven, and it is required that you accept Jesus Christ as your savior to get there, it means that your loves ones who did not are in hell. And for an atheist to claim there is no after life, it would mean that a christians loved ones simply cease to be; a sad and scary thought.

I think this is a major cause for the discussions becoming so heated.

 

I wonder if it's not a defense mechanism. If people say things that make you think, does it make you question your beliefs. As someone that had his belief system turned upside down, I understand the discomfort of questioning beliefs. I used to be angry about it.

 

I've seen atheists get pretty heated too.

Normally when I talk about this sort of thing I'm trying to figure out what people think and why they think it.

 

As have I. I thought my post covered the motivation of atheists as well.

 

Well belief system are pretty personal, maybe some people believe things without knowing why.

 

The yearly influx of Somalis due to the last few years of humanitarian disaster there has been 0.002% of our population at a time that our own population is growing by .7% per year - 300X more.

Claiming that is "diversifying America" makes no sense.

 

Oh certainly.
I consider myself an atheist, but I have a slight lean towards Unitarian Universalism. I guess that helps me consolidate my faith from my early life. Might be a little self serving as it allows my to believe in some form of afterlife (maybe), but it doesn’t ask anything of my life as many other religions do.

 

Yes. I suspect critiziing or opposing someone's religion is just a wrong approach.

 

It most definitely is a defense mechanism.

I've been there myself, and questioning my beliefs was just the first step in the longer more difficult process of rejecting those beliefs, tearing down my old self and building a new self with a new set of beliefs. It's not easy - it takes a lot of humility and strength - but I came out a better man for it.

 

I have documented the diversification of the US over the course of the past several decades. That disunity has grown in large part to this diversification is apparent. I have (elsewhere) documented the corrosive effects of diversification discovered by social sciences.

Why do you tout diversification?

(I don't expect you to tell me. None of you diversification touts ever dot have at it ignoring the question.)

 

Well atheist doesn't mean you don't believe in an afterlife, it just means you don't believe in God. And your beliefs are for you so they don't have to be justified.

 

I never said it was right, wrong or indifferent.

 

I replaced old incompatible beliefs with better ones. That is a hard process but I think it is worth it.