Replace pensions with basic income??

Too bad states can't go into bankruptcy.

 

I support this idea 100%. I hope everyone who is unable to earn would get a basic income.

 

Municipalities and counties can declare bankruptcy, but states can't because state governments have different branches of government which have separation of enumerated powers.

Maybe this page will help explain the problem.
https://www.illinoispolicy.org/repo...ois-massive-government-worker-pension-crisis/

Asking the taxpayers to pay more in taxes when government employees are already treated like royalty is out of the question. The best that can be accomplished in my opinion is to get rid of the defined benefit plans and put all state employees on a 401k, and let them have fun with that.

 

The problem in this state is not the amount they receive, it's the length of time that they receive the benefits! In this state federal and local employees are eligible to retire at 55 as long as they have 25 years in. What they are now experiencing is people are living longer and that's a great thing! BUT ATM we have two people that retired from the same position and third person drawing a wage that replaced the two retired! That's two people drawing 70% of there wage "Retirement" and another drawing 100% filling the job the other two retired from!

The whole public worker Ponzi scheme is reaching critical mass across the country, if gubmint bloat is not reduced we will not have the horses to pull the cast so to speak! Bottom line, public workers wages begin and end with the private sector and they are not self funded by any stretch of the imagination!

 

What makes it even worse is that for almost a decade interest rates have been near zero. Trust funds have been falling way behind -- as if they needed the help in becoming insolvent. Good thing Social Security is such a rip off or it would have gone bankrupt years ago.

 

Some states have laws against double dipping. Some jobs, like police and fire need people to retire at 25 years. Do we really want 65 year olds trying to fight fires or run down suspects? I don't think so.

My point from the beginning is that we don't pay our public employees at the same rate as those in the private sectors and attempt to even things up with pension funds. If we cut pensions, then we'll need to raise the salaries of those employees, or they will simply go to the private sector. Many places already have a shortage of applicants for those jobs now. We're not going to privatize our police, fire, schools, etc. So, we either provide a higher salary and let them have 401Ks like the private sector, or we provide incentives like pensions to offset the lower salaries. Since retirement funds were in the future, they were much easier to promise than coming up with the salary with today's cash. We made the deal with those employees. They kept their end of the bargain and took a lower salary throughout their career. To pull back promised benefits now is fraudulent, even if we have trouble paying for it. A contract is legal and binding to both sides.

Back to the topic… As we move more toward automation, we need to figure out how to support a population with many, many jobs taken by robotics.

 

My father was a civil servant. He worked for the Federal Government until retirement at 55 in 1973. I buried him in 2008. His pension at the time of his death was over $90,000 per year. That doesn't include health benefits, etc.

 

Actually, no, WE didn't It's fine to hold states responsible for public debt, ie retirement funds, but when other more fiscal states "Federal" are forced to bail out or experience higher tax burdens to pay for deals that are no long sustainable then adjustment should be made!

 

In the private sector, the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation insures pension. The plan provider has to pay insurance premiums whether it's multiple or single company pension plan. Not true for Federal, State, or Local Governments. PBGC pays up to around $60,000 annually based on a few criteria. As I take it, pensions for government workers are left exposed. Not much wondering how that came about.

 

People are actually naïve to the amount state, county and city workers make Just one example of money wasted at the public level. A good friend of mine ran and was elected to County Commissioner, one of FIVE! For this position he is compensated $52,000 a year and the best medical anyone could ask for and the bulk of his duty is to MEET and discuss option FOUR TIMES A MONTH, yes that's right, 4 X per month

On top of that he is also a successful owner operator and makes pretty nice living to boot! Yup our gubmint public employment at it's wasteful best!

 

The do, and then their glutted public and public retirees are bailed out by fiscally responsible states and relieved of their "Rainy day" funds until they suffer the same fate!

Gubmint is a hungry beast and will consume all the private wealth if not put in check!

 

The way they handle that kind of stuff by me is they make up an excuse for a ballot in May before Mother's Day so they can pass a property tax levy to fund increases in teacher pay and benefits while granny, who can't afford the bill, is still in Florida. They send the kids home to market the pay increase under the threat of a teacher strike. This concept can be used to fund all sorts of free stuff. Have to make sure the ballot is not in November and definitely stay away from November in Presidential Election year. The objective is for 10% of the population to vote money out of the pockets of the rest.

May take some analysis, but Democrats are experts at this kind of chicanery. They'll figure it out.

 

Opps, he retired in 1977. Since he retired as a Colonel in the Air Force Reserves in 1973, he had in addition a pension from that plus Social Security. Sad thing is they were simple people -- didn't need the money. My dad would give my mother $50 / week just to play. She stuffed it away in her underwear drawer. I found thousands when I had to clear out the house.

Glad they were comfortable in retirement, but there are limits.

 

Pension benefit gifting has nothing to do with offsetting low salaries. It has everything to do with the timing of the bill. By the time pensions hit the taxpayer, the politician who gave them away is long gone and likely pushing up weeds.

 

The average income in 1973 was $7,590. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average_Indexed_Monthly_Earnings

His retirement would be based on the average of his last 5 years salary, and only a percentage of that.

I find it hard to believe that he managed to make $90,000 a year in retirement.

 

You're making my point. The politicians gave pensions to offset lower salaries because that was a future promise, but funds had to be set aside to grow with interest over time. Some public employee retirement funds are quite healthy, but some aren't. Just like money was in Social Security to cover the Baby Boomers, but was borrowed against to pay for war. Now the Boomers are hitting SS age, it's time to pay the piper.

The contractual agreements made with the employees are binding. The employee kept their end of the agreement, and planned their life according to that agreement.

If the public sector retirement agreement is altered for younger people to match what happens in the private sector, expect to pay higher salaries for them.

 

Why should someone in Florida have to pay for Chicago's largess

 

Whats a basic income?

 

Money paid out as a benefits package, in addition to a salary, that is paid out now and for the lifetime of the person or until the system crashes.

 

What is this based on? Just an arbitrary number like social security, or based on other factors like welfare?

 

I corrected --- he retired in 1977 after his final 4 years working for the Feds at the shipyard at Subic Bay, Philippines.

 

I don't know.

 

It is a no-strings welfare check for anybody who doesn't want to work.

 

That's not my proposal.

 

That's only because you haven't seen the price-tag.

Universal Basic Income (UBI) provides a fixed amount of money to every person 18 years and older.

Proponents of UBI insist that UBI will replace all manner of Welfare Programs currently on the table, which would include SNAP/Food Stamp, WIC, TAN-F, National School Lunch Program, HUD Section 8 and Social Security et al. You can find a list of the Welfare Programs below and instantly you'll see that UBI will not replace every program as claimed.

The number I like to use is $1,341, because that is the average amount of money that a Social Security Beneficiary receives per month.

In order to pay every person -- rich and poor -- because that's what Universal Basic Income is, you'd have to collect more than $3,567,714,855,461 ($3.5 TRILLION) in payroll taxes to provide "Social Security for all".

That would require an increase in FICA payroll taxes to 52.7%, or 26% each for employer and employee to pay a Universal Basic income of $1,341 per month.

That's a hefty tax.

Suppose you were single and earned $50,000 per year -- again UBI covers everybody -- then you'd pay $13,000 in payroll taxes, but you'd receive $1,341 per month in UBI so the total received would be $16,092 leaving you with a surplus of $3,092.

Suppose you and your spouse earned $100,000 annually, then you'd pay $26,000 in payroll taxes, but you'd both collect UBI, so you'd be $6,184 to the good.

A single person who did not work would collect $1,341 per month, which wouldn't cover housing or food in an high-cost of living area, in which case Liberals would be demanding such persons receive SNAP/Food Stamps and HUD Section 8 housing plus Medicaid, defeating the whole purpose of having UBI in the first place.



As far as Welfare Programs go, these four programs --- Indian Human Services, Indian Housing Block Grants, Indian Education and Indian Health Service, may be under various treaties between the United States and the several Indian Tribal Groups (I don't know enough about them to make a judgment).

That leaves the following 79 redundant overlapping programs, which cost more than $1.3 TRILLION annually:

Healthcare:
Family Planning
Consolidated Health Centers
Transitional Cash and Medical Services for Refugees
State Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP)
Voluntary Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit—Low-Income Subsidy
Medicaid
Ryan White HIV/AIDS Program
Breast/Cervical Cancer Early Detection
Maternal and Child Health Block Grant

Income Redistribution Programs:
Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) (cash aid)
Supplemental Security Income
Additional Child Tax Credit
Earned Income Tax Credit (refundable component)

"Nutrition" Programs:
Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP)
School Breakfast Program (free/reduced price components)
National School Lunch Program (free/reduced price components)
Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children (WIC)
Child and Adult Care Food Program (lower income components)
Summer Food Service Program
Commodity Supplemental
Food Program Nutrition Assistance for Puerto Rico
The Emergency Food Assistance Program (TEFAP)
Nutrition Program for the Elderly

"Education" Programs:
Adult Basic Education Grants to States
Federal Supplemental Educational Opportunity Grant
Education for the Disadvantaged—Grants to Local Educational Agencies (Title I-A)
Title I Migrant Education Program
Higher Education—Institutional Aid and Developing Institutions
Federal Work-Study
Federal TRIO Programs
Federal Pell Grants
Education for Homeless Children and Youth
21st Century Community Learning Centers
Gaining Early Awareness and Readiness for Undergraduate Programs (GEAR-UP)
Reading First and Early Reading First
Rural Education Achievement Program
Mathematics and Science Partnerships
Child Care and Development Fund
Head Start HHS
Developmental Disabilities Support and Advocacy Grants
Improving Teacher Quality State Grants
Academic Competitiveness and Smart Grant Program

"Housing" programs:
Single-Family Rural Housing Loans
Rural Rental Assistance Program
Supportive Housing for the Elderly
Supportive Housing for Persons with Disabilities
Section 8 Project-Based Rental Assistance
Community Development Block Grants
Homeless Assistance Grants
Home Investment Partnerships Program (HOME)
Housing Opportunities for Persons with AIDS (HOPWA)
Public Housing
Section 8 Housing Choice Vouchers
Neighborhood Stabilization Program-1
Grants to States for Low-Income Housing in Lieu of Low-Income Housing Credit Allocations
Tax Credit Assistance Program
Emergency Food and Shelter Program

Housing Related Programs:
Water and Waste Disposal for Rural Communities
Public Works and Economic Development
Weatherization Assistance Program
Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program (LIHEAP)

Social Welfare Programs:
Older Americans Act Grants for Supportive Services and SeniorCenters
Older Americans Act Family Caregiver Program
Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) (social services)
Child Support Enforcement
Community Services Block Grant
Foster Care
Adoption Assistance
Social Services Block Grant
Chafee Foster Care Independence Program
Legal Services Corporation
Community Service Employment for Older Americans
Social Services and Targeted Assistance for Refugees
Foster Grandparents

"Job Training" Programs:
Job Corps
Workforce Investment Act (WIA) Adult Activities
Workforce Investment Act (WIA) Youth Activities
Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) (employment and training)
Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) (employment and training component)