Romans 9:9-13 Proves Christainity is Evil

Clearly you don't have any evidence or you'd post it. You're just a religious zealot after all.

Enjoy being told what to do, or being created to be hated.

Laughable.

 

So you love really Yahweh.

Exodus 3:18 (ERV) = “The elders will listen to you. And then you and the elders will go to the Pharaoh. You will tell him, ‘Yahweh is the God of the Hebrews. He came to us and told us to travel three days into the desert. There we must offer sacrifices to Yahweh our God.’

Hosea 12:5 (ERV) = "Yes, Yahweh is the God of the armies. His name is Yahweh."

 

But if you take this position (skeptical theism as it relates to questions of justice)- you now have to ask whether or not people who hold this view of God can ever have moral character or integrity. The fundamental question that must be asked is "How do you know God is worthy of worship?" If you say because "God is good", how do you know the meaning of the term "good", if its beyond the power of humanity to know?

Further, it would seem to make any question of "human" morality suspect - you couldn't say that the following are bad: child abuse (you don't know God's plan), the Holocaust (you don't know God's plan), 9/11 (you don't know God's plan), etc. You certainly wouldn't be in a position to criticize or even act in relation to them (e.g. letting them happen, encouraging them to happen, or stopping them from happening, are all potentially the same -> since it is said that we don't know what God wants). This is nihilistic to the core. And furthermore, it makes denigrating submission into a virtue and servile deference as ideal moral character. Is this how you see God? Requiring this type of blind devotion as necessary for being a good Christian- as necessary for redemption?

 

And you call me a troll,lol. Go back to your tricycle.

 

You may have read the Bible, maybe even cover to cover, but I doubt it based on your posts. You certainly have not spent the time to learn the background material required to understand it. Your posts are filled with misunderstanding and complaints popular with those who have read segments but don't have the understanding or desire to understand.

And understanding does not mean believing.

 

You ignore 99% of the issue and grasp the 1% to smear it all. But that's typical of people scared they have made the wrong choice.

 

Do you created Universe, Earth, man, humanity?
Surely not.
Therefore anybody here must have respect to Creator and his divine plan.
We must just follow his commandments and stop to criticize him.

 

If I accept Christianity, then I know what God has chosen to reveal about His plan and what is right and wrong. I don't know everything about God, but I do not expect to know everything about the being that created the universe.

Its analogous to a parent and 6 year old child, the child knows the rules and what the parent expects. The child from experience knows that the parent has her best interests at heart and knows that the best results come from following the parents rules. The child understands why some of the rules are in place, but not other rules. But the child does not have the experience or knowledge to fully understand the parent.

 

Typical zealot nonsense. What you are really saying is that I have to turn off my rational thinking and just read faithfully. How about you use this ridiculous mindset while reading the Koran.

 

The biblical God said that his name is Yahweh. Therefore if you use Yahweh instead of the generic God you would say = "I don't know everything about Yahweh, but I do not expect to know everything about the being that created the universe."

Now remember, Yahweh is the God of the Hebrews and the God of the armies.

 

A) It seems that the analogy between child and parent is a bit weak here: 1) children don't question the existence of their parents, 2) their parents talk to them, enter into conversations with them, hold them, etc.; it is an actual sensuous experience (seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling, comforting, loving, reciprocity, etc.), 3) parental authority is not sacrosanct - it can be overridden when parents' act in ways detrimental to their children, 4) parental authority is aimed at its own dissolution - the goal of parenthood is to raise a child to become an equal - i.e. a human being who can function on their own, who no longer needs to be parented, 5) parents must sometimes intervene in the decisions of their children for their own sake (lest they be guilty of neglect), etc. // The relationship between God and humanity in the theological view presented above doesn't seem to be any of these things; at best it would be like the principle of a school laying down rules of behavior 2000+ years ago (like a collection of speeches and laws) and having the school children read these, visit shrines, and from time to time engage in rituals/festivals.

B) How do you know that God has one's best interests at heart? Are you relying on some evidence to support this? Furthermore, what does "best" mean here? And doesn't this require a view of understandable morality in order to evaluate? Otherwise, no matter what God wants for you it would be good. But if this is true, then there are criteria for judging God's actions - the grounding of morality then necessarily must lie outside of God's mere wants or desires.

C) How does the child understand anything of moral rules in your example? On what grounds? Still the question posed in my earlier post remains unanswered: if your position is true, wouldn't it mean that that things like the Holocaust, 9/11, and Sandy Hook are all moral questions in which we can't know the rightness or wrongness of, since we don't have God's mind? (This means your position also seems to entail the view that we can't pass judgment on Hitler or even try to stop him, because Hitler could have been doing God's work - the same goes for the 9/11 hijackers - since we don't know the big picture of right and wrong). If this is true, couldn't God make the most sadistic genocide morally acceptable just by saying "well you don't understand why getting pleasure from the suffering of others is the greatest good" or something else equally absurd? This view seems to be a thorough-going form of moral nihilism.

 

Also...... Esau eventually..... over many reincarnations will get to the place where he will exceed Jacob / Yacob......... in many ways......


Luke 7:47

Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

 

Wrong. That shows your closed mindedness. You can read the Bible as just another work of ancient literature like the Illiad and Odyssey, the Nibelungenlied, and the koran. There is secular historical and archaeological - and entertainment - value in all of them. Many academics read them from a strictly secular perspective for those reasons.

And that's how many people come to Christianity or Islam. They read the Bible and/or Koran, and combined with their personal experiences they determine that one (or neither) is true. That's making a rational thoughtful decision. What you are doing is making an irrational decision - look up rational and irrational.

 

There are 2 mistakes in your argument.

1 - The person in question has already decided that God exists, and goes even further in deciding that God is the Christian God. The Christian does not question the existence of God, the child does not question the existence of his parent.

2 - You assume there is no current communication or interaction between God and people. Christians believe there is and always has been interaction, ranging from the crucifixion of Jesus (which still has impact today) to God's response to prayer. Christians see this interaction on a daily basis (whether it is an objectively demonstrable interaction is beside the point).

The issue is not whether God exists or not, this discussion and OP is about Christianity. Christians have resolved the question of the existence of God and decided that Christianity is the Truth. At that point, what is "best" for a person is outlined by God in the Bible. The Bible becomes lifes user manual.

If you start with the question "does God exist?" then there are far fewer limits on the question and you can question the nature and form of God. Each person resolves the question based on their own subjective criteria.

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For the Christian, right and wrong are defined by God in the Bible, and right and wrong are also embedded in each persons soul (the Bible states that God can be recognized in the world and in your conscience). The Bible is a moral document, the 10 Commandments, the "golden rule", the Book of Proverbs, the story of the Good Samaritan, and more.

 

It doesn't matter what mindset one is in, the Bible says what it says. I read the Bible, as a Christian, in hope to defend it. My rational honest discernment could not defend it. What became clear was that it perfectly resembled folklore written by men, and not of a superior being.
It is typical of zealots to attack the reader and ignore the reality that your religious book is nothing but a book.

You are no different than a Muslim. You believe with no evidence.

 

Wrong again. The mindset is all important, it determines whether you investigate with a mind open to new ideas or whether you take a cursory look with a pre-ordained conclusion.

 

Uh no, as I said, when I read the bible in full, I did so as a Christian looking to defend it. Because I used honest discernment, I found it to be contrary to the years of preaching I had listened to.

Again, you are a zealot who believes the bible can only be read as a faithful zombie in order to comprehend it. Hogwash.

 

And again, I investigated determined to defend the Bible.

You only prove that **** can be seen as shinola when reading without honest discernment.

Btw, try countering my assertions with facts. Claiming I'm ignorant and can't understand what I read, doesn't cut it. That's a typical zealot response when you can't refute my assertions.

 

It is not a fail. god loves those that love, as they exemplify his purpose for us, he admits them to heaven or 'joy.' if you sin, what is hell for? if you were to be hated by god, he would not curse you so that you feel it in life, always allowing for rectifications to your life, of course. it is only in death that he let's us be judged, as our time to rectify and repent is up.

God does not create people to hate them. would you raise a child to hate you so you can hate them? there is plenty of evidence of god loving people, hence the miracles of jesus that nobody stepped forward to, in that time period, to denounce, yes? not even the romans were against the teachings, only the mantle. there is no free will, only determinism, but often, things are changed by god. but, back to you creating a child to hate you and for you to hate - surely you have better things to do with your time?

 

Your bible clearly says otherwise. There is no free will if god knows it all ahead of time; it is all preordained. Christianity is a failure and the Esau story shows it.

Sorry.

 

Okay, big boy...

First of all, this book of romans, was it written by romans? imagine this if you will, some soldiers that are very sorry they crucified jesus come forwards with honest testimonies, or...

Some dukes and stuff stick to their guns, try to deface the bible with convoluted stories and testimonies, trying to keep their jobs, and, say what they want to say? this might have been forced into the bible by "romans" that wanted to see the lessons of god kept secret, yes?

Secondly, i am 'a tourist.' i am actually a neo pagan that worships venus primarily and i also believe in determinism. i am just trying to offer a new angle for your argument.

 

1. Miracles are mostly a hoax, some of them incredibly cruel hoaxes to boot.

2. The Esau story proves god created someone to hate, and torture them for eternity. IT automatically disqualifies everything else about the bible.

Sorry. It is a failure.

 

Do you have proof for this claim? It's purely a fabrication from your faith.

God gives every freewill a equal chance, though He knows before hand who he is. This is because an action requires open witnessing, say from the angels. God will not put you in hell without you showing up as who you are, though He knows well who you are.

God never fails, it's your intelligence which fails, and yet you have to choose to rely heavily on your unreliable IQ to make a decision on something beyond your IQ can reach. That's why it is prophesied in Genesis that the Tree of Knowledge is something which,

The day you choose to eat of it, the same day you shall surely die.
The Tree of Life (that is whether life will continue after our death), is hidden from the reach of men. The only way you can possibly reach it is by believing with faith on what is said. You are doomed when using your IQ to try to come up with an answer.

 

[1] these hoaxes were abut making jews walk in the bible. how could someone that could not walk, for example, walk again? there must have been scrutiny?

[2] This one story of the bible does not disclaim the rest of the bible. maybe the rest of the bible disclaims this one story? in scientific research they take averages, there are also chance mutations. there is no proof god said that or anything else, but the testimony of the apostles is proof. it was recorded and given to the roman church, where some of them left the belief in the pantheon and took hold of jesus.

 

By his line of reasoning, anything lying outside human knowledge is a hoax. Human knowledge however is limited, for a fact (which he failed to live with).