Russian Defense lines collapsing in Donetsk Oblast.

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by zoom_copter66, Sep 25, 2022.

  1. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    This comment stinks of desperation. It doesn’t make you look to have a strong argument. Me and you almost never agree… well, we don’t at all. But I’m just saying as a friendly debater that you are usually above this and have better arguments. Not your style.
     
  2. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    Conscripts are NEW RECRUITS. That, BY DEFINITION, means NO TRAINING. DEPLOYMENT means SENDING THEM SOMEWHERE. Putin's massive losses needs troop RIGHT NOW at the front. If he called up RESERVES, that means he's getting TRAINED TROOPS. If he just sends fresh recruits to the front (which the Russians have done many time in the past), its a death sentence. You seem unaware of the history of the Russian Army. In WWI, civilians were given uniforms and shipped to the front. There was no training base at all. Now, there's a training base, but its pretty simple for combat arms folks. Nothing like what the USA has.

    Its amazing to me what a low priority training is in most modern armies. For example, when the US Army did so well in Desert Storm and OIF, many countries asked us to build them a training infrastructure like we have. I was involved with a lot of that. The premier training facilities in the US Army are called CTC's (Combat Training Centers). After Individual, Crew, Team and Combined Arms level training is completed, units rotate through the CTC's for a very high fidelity war simulation. Many countries asked us to build such facilities for them. I was involved with a lot of that and I was amazed that, with the exception of the British and Australians, how they watered down the facilities. Canada, for example, only wanted to train fro 9 to 5... just a normal work day. In US CTC's units are essential "at war" for weeks at a time, day and night. I was amazed at the how cavalier the Canadians were.

    The Russians have even less inclination and resources to train their combat arms.
     
  3. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Donor

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    Russkies are going down like White House interns.
     
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  4. Hollyhood

    Hollyhood Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is my understanding that these Russian Reservists are meant to bolster the Professional Russian Army inside and outside of Ukraine. I don't understand how one would assume that Russian Veterans are untrained. Some media sources claim that they will surely perish against a Ukrainian Army of Zombies surrounded by NATO Military Vehicles get completely obliterated while taking a stroll through several miles of open field that is repeatedly bombarded. The Ukrainians finally hit some Professional Russian Soldiers in Lyman as opposed to some Donetsk Militia, and suffered large casualties that forced them to move troops up from the Bakmut front. Having 300K trained soldiers with at least 1-2+ years training so you can free-up or support the experienced Russian Soldiers seems like a game-changer that keeps the pressure on a Ukrainian State that can't sustain the war effort without enormous funding from NATO states that will be feeling the hurt this winter.
     
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  5. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    im just trying to determine your native language because clearly youre having a real bad time understanding my english.
     
  6. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    all im doing is seeking sources from ppl in order to determine propaganda from reality. not only is it harmless but its also imperative, wouldnt you agree?
     
  7. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    untrained? says who, you?
    im sensing propaganda here.

    not interested in your opinions on this matter, require hard intel. thanks.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2022
  8. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    These new folks are "veterans"? I never saw that. I have only heard the term "conscripts" which are draftees, civilians forced into the military. OK, if they are largely veterans its a whole different thing.
     
  9. submarinepainter

    submarinepainter Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Me 10 active and 31 years in DoD
     
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  10. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    HOOAH! Hi my brother!
     
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  11. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    the longer this war goes on the more money the DoD makes. its a win, win. the citizens of europe are suffering a great recession though, not that the MIC gives a damn about us.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2022
  12. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    DoD makes money? What? How does DoD "make money"???DoD has no money. Just a budget controlled by Congress.
     
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  13. USVet

    USVet Newly Registered

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    To clarify, Putin claims he would only forcibly conscript veterans who already had prior mitary experience but in reality that isn't how Russian authorities are doing things. Each region has quotas (with Moscow and St. Petersburg having the lowest quotas despite being the most populous) and the Putin appointed ethnic Russian governors are mostly conscription random ethnic minorities. The vast majority of which claim they have no prior military experience.

    No, the two weeks of supposed training is not remotely good enough for even a basic training much less advanced infantry training. As for equipment Russia isn't even giving them winter clothes or sleeping bags while the rifles being handed out are rusted and pitted dating from the 1970's using a caliber of ammo the Russian army doesn't even use any more. Any old left over stock of ammo they can use is probably in as bad a state as those rusted out old rifles.

    Bottom line, yes, many if not most will be u trained raw forced conscripts and, yes, you had better believe they will be forced into frontline units as warm bodies. Putin claimed otherwise in his TV address but Putin always lies so...
     
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  14. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    the contractors working for dod make the money. the dod are just a cog in this money sink.
     
  15. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    Good info... thanks.
     
  16. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    Contractors are not part of DoD. WOW are they not part of DoD!! The contractors sweat blood for the contracts they win in stiff competition to give DoD what they want. I was a "business developer" for some of the "Big Six" defense contractors. It got more and more difficult to win contracts in an ever decreasing market.
     
  17. Hollyhood

    Hollyhood Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I can't say that a majority of them are veterans. I'm not willing to go that far based on a few videos by Russian enlistees and Kremlin announcements translated in English. But I definitely don't believe the Media claims that none of these soldiers are trained. Some articles would have you believe that all these 'conscripts' are a bunch of drunk F-ups that can't tie their shoes, because they have a couple videos where a few Russians are passed out from a night of drinking before they've shipped out. All my friends got drunk before they shipped out. LOL. There's so much BS propaganda in the media. We're essentially at war right now with Russia, China and Iran. There's also stories about Xi Jinping being held prisoner by members of his own party that coincidentally got started right before the election, and whole Women's Rights protest in Iran was ignited from a US media assets, including a women that was exiled from the country.
     
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  18. ricmortis

    ricmortis Well-Known Member

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    What we do know is none of these conscripts want to be there nor dying for Putin's continued failures to steal Ukraine.
     
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  19. Hollyhood

    Hollyhood Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I saw videos of people volunteering to go to Ukraine. How are you just going to assume that all of them don't want to go serve their country? I had friends that wanted to serve in Iraq, and people were honored to die so Dick Cheney could make money off military contracts via his business partners in the defense industry. Or perhaps they won't factor that into their decision, because they weren't brainwashed to believe the same things you were brainwashed to believe.
     
  20. USVet

    USVet Newly Registered

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    Vintners had essentially dried up thus why Putin was forced to order conscription. It didn't help that word got out that Putin wasn't paying volunteers the promised bonuses (often not even any salaries), that people learned how bad conditions were on the front, and that the death rates were .any ti es higher than the liar Putin falsely claimed.
     
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  21. ricmortis

    ricmortis Well-Known Member

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    I give you credit that a few thousand out of a hundred thousand bought into Putin's lies and volunteered. But, those videos could have been created in April for all we know being the Kremlin utilizes trickery to fool his people. Happy now?
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2022
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  22. Hollyhood

    Hollyhood Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Prove it. Can you produce some bodies? How do you know they weren't people from Donetsk or Luhansk fighting for the Russians? The only country that continuously fails to provide casualty numbers is the Ukraine. What were the numbers in Kherson? The only soldier deaths that I can remember them claiming was on Snake Island, where they claim Ukrainians were told to surrender, and one soldier replied "Russian Warship... F-You." They were honored as fallen heroes, even though they survived by immediately surrendering.
     
  23. ricmortis

    ricmortis Well-Known Member

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    FYI. Ukraine provides daily casualty numbers if you opened your eyes and stop reading Russian propaganda.
     
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  24. cabse5

    cabse5 Well-Known Member

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    Too bad the people of Donetsk and other regions of eastern Ukraine don't want to be liberated from Russia.:roll: The fascists, the destroyers of democracy in Donetsk and other regions of eastern Ukraine are the Ukrainians and the rest of the world.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2022
  25. ricmortis

    ricmortis Well-Known Member

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    Russia has proven time and again to be the destroyers of democracy and the promotion of unilaterally brutal dictatorship of Furher Putin and his personal objectives which involve the slaughter of his own people and innocents in the nation he is invading.

    Ukraine is defending their homeland from blood thirsty madman in Putin with his war mongering invasion of their land.
     
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