I don't think anyone here considers themselves a "Rambo". I have never seen a gunshot wound and I hope I never have to. I have never used my weapons against anything other than targets and I hope I never have to. But if someone breaks into my house, it is my intention to stop them with as much force as I can muster.
If you start down that road, then there are going to be additional sanctions against being old, or lame, or having one hand, or a plethora of other disabilities that the younger generations will be trying to enact. It shouldn't happen because you are then making rules based on preconceived notions, not on the person as an individual. The difference between a felon and a non-felon is that the felon did something to loose their rights in the first place. Our judicial system, for better or worse, has classified some crimes to be worthy of a different tier of punishment and legal standing than common crimes like misdemeanors that usually don't involve violence or willful negligence. As for the division, I don't see that happening anytime soon. The (left/liberals/Democrats/whatever) attack the (right/conservatives/Republicans/whatever) just because they are on a separate side of the issue. Even if it is a fantastic idea, and put forth by one of their own, a democrat will attack a republican just because it didn't come from their side. One prime example of this is when then President Clinton and his school resource officer program. http://articles.courant.com/1998-06...urce-officers-police-officers-school-resource Yet, when an NRA spokesman, Wayne LaPierre, suggests the same thing, he is demonized and yelled at by the media and other private sources. http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox...uch_would_wayne_lapierre_s_proposal_cost.html http://www.thenation.com/article/172173/why-do-democrats-want-more-police-schools# http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251266870 http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/336637/cops-schools-eliana-johnson http://frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreen...t-cops-in-schools-wont-stop-school-shootings/ I don't see any stopping of polarization for many reasons. 1. The internet, and media to an extension, has allowed information to be spread across the country in several minutes to an hour. This is a good and bad thing. It allows court rulings, voting results, and speeches to be witnessed beyond the people present at the whatever. Politicians are now having to cover their own ass more than they may have had to in the past. This makes moderates that are sorta wishy-washy on party line issues and constituants that vote "Democrat" don't want to have their elected representative vote for a "Republican" issue. This tends to lead to more radical, both on the left and right, to be elected that will staunchly support the party status quo instead of being more moderate and representing people as they really are. I know several people on this board that have views very similar to mine, including Logictician, on some gun views. There isn't a whole lot of middle ground when it comes to certain issues. Obama said that he was going to ask input from everyone after assigning Joe Biden to the gun question panel at the end of December. It produced exactly what everyone on the pro-gun side thought it was going to: recommendations on a mag size limit and an Assault Weapon Ban. Not a whole lot of input from the pro-gun side as far as I can tell. 2. People, in general, are becoming more and more reliant on other people than in the past (at least where I am in my part of the country). This gives way to specialization, which is a good thing, but also gives them less of an independent mindset when it comes to other things in their life. Right now, we are seeing this expressed as personal defense in these threads. The government has no duty to protect an individual though the media and anti self-defense people claim that police do have that responsibility. 3. Unemployment is very high right now. Despite what the numbers say, there are fewer Americans working than at the beginning of the recession in 2008. With the population becoming older, retiring, and starting to rely on public assistance, the younger generations are starting to feel the pinch. Couple that with not being able to find a job, living at home until their mid to late 20's/30's, we are seeing a more depressed generation that is not coming into their own like previous generations. 4. There have been massive changes in the way that "news" is being "reported". I see talking heads giving their opinions more often than the facts and events being reported in a concise manner. This lack of character and journalistic integrity is appalling. This goes for both sides of the media, though I believe most news agencies lean more left than right, the exception being Fox "News".
I'm not going to spend the entire day attempting to rationalize with you and as such you and I will have to agree to disagree on this thread.
Then stop responding when someone asks you to back up your claim. Unlike you, I know of several firearms instructors, cops, and like minded people that say "shoot until the threat is neutralized," not "shoot once, ask if he is ok, and then shoot again if he says yes."
Likewise I'm not going to spend my entire time here attempting to rationalize with you; I don't think we both can come to an agreement on this thread and as such we both will have to agree to disagree.
Was reading some of your responses about shooting once and the honesty is not everyone is going to aim for the head/groin first shot. This is from police. Granted it is from Dec. 9, 2010 10 a.m. BUT, It does make sense. http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/sirens/2010/dec/09/shoot-kill-vs-shoot-stop-threat/ Note: I have been told by friends who are ex military/police to shoot till i run out of ammo. Now I know my .45 is a hard impact pistol and know at close range it will lift a person off their feet by being hit by one. BUT. I also know what overkill is. Unless they are running on pure energy two to the chest will stop just about anything. in a 9mm you are looking at 5-8 rounds center mass and from what i have been told is why most officers went from the berreta 9mm to 40 cal
I don't think ANYONE (apart from ageing actors) think they are Rambo but that is how some of the more "bravado" talk comes across as See if you asked an Aussie how he would defend himself and his family if he did not have a gun you would get any sort of response from a shrug to a comment like "Well I would stick my arm so far down his throat I would be able to rip out his ------------ and beat him to death with it" which is also Bravado but carries humour and an implication that they would do what they could as an when they could Which is all anyone can do
Which would you rather - be punched in the face or have your face blown off That is the difference between England and the USA
Then you are aware that it is NOT like Hollywood - a small rather fetching wound which some beautiful co-star can dab at with a handkerchief but a large gaping hole where part of a human used to be However all too many people on these gun threads boasting about how big their guns are ,have never seen the shocking reality
Cocaine and meth gives people an extreme adrenaline rush that can actually give them the ability to take more bullets, unless there was a shot to disable the nervouse system or the circlatory(spelling?) System. People have been hit by cars while they were tweaked and got right up and ran off, even with broken legs and broken ribs. Meth was originally made for soldiers to become super soldiers, but the side effects were too dangerous.
Maybe its me however i dont beleive a lot of people brag about the hole a gun will make. for example, I know mine will make a dollar coil sized hole shooting lead and that is why i choose to be more cautious with it. knowing your weapon and knowing its destructive power is a good way to learn to be a better gun owner. Honestly if I did not have my gun I would have my knife and if I did not have that I would have an improvised weapon. so defending myself is not just because i now have a gun. it is because i choose to have more then one means of protection. I have one of these I carry on me at all times since I work at a district no knife, no gun "Gun Free zone" dosnt make me safe, makes me an easier target. it has slight jagged edges so you can hold it in your first to leave no empty space and use it as a striking tool.
I have seen it, it really isn't pretty. I have noticed some people knid of boasting, but original intent for this thread was about safety, I preach about safety safety and more safety. I am even preparing a youtube channel about gun safety in the home, around children and self defense. I am trying to promote awareness for gun safety for the smaller percentage of gun owners who are not. Point of safety for this thread was what ammo penetrates walls less, I would hope you could appreciate that.
Come now let maintain some semblance to reality. The issue in England is not people punching other people in the face. The escalation of violent crime is a very serious issue for them now. I am not sure I follow, please elaborate.
Which would you rather be - being defenseless at the mercy of an asrmed attacker or a chance at being the victim of a violent attack that was stopped by adequate tools?
A self defense weapon is whatever is at hand when the need arises. It can be a semi-automatic rifle, a pistol, a knife, or anything else. I personally keep a 2 foot long chunk of underground telephone cable near at home. 600, 19 insulated gauge wires wrapped in aluminium, wrapped in plastic. There is also a brace of trowing knives close and a firearm handy if all else fails. Having felt what a bullet feels like when it enters your body, I plan to do my best to make sure it never happens again.
I'm sorry that you have to know how it feels to be shot, and I am happy for you that you are stepping up to make sure that never happens again. I have never been shot, but I was beaten to in inch of my life for no other reason but a kid was trying to get into a gang. A metal pipe crunching you ribs and shoulder causing extreme internal bleeding and a punctured lung kinda makes you want to arm yourself. The only reason they left, as they said, "S#%t let's bounce n&%#a, this muthaf#$@a dead!" Justice dept. didn't do anything about it, gave the three people involved a small sentence. What really gets under my skin is when the gun advocates tell me that the chance of something like that happening is small, guess what, it already has happened to me, so don't talk to me about chance, I have to live with the consequence of not being armed and ready to defend myself.
Dodge - you did not answer MY question - as for being "defenceless" I never consider myself defenceless as my defences do not revolve around owning a gun - - - Updated - - - Oh! You must be talking about the people relying on a gun - me I am never defenceless - I have the greatest weapon known - the grey matter between my ears
If you want an actual answer, it depends. That little scenario is so open to interpretation that I couldn't answer it truthfully, but depending on the circumstances, it would be either. You don't know some of the horrors in this world. Some of them don't deserve to see the light of day.
And THAT is using your grey matter Bravo! Gun or not you will not be defenceless while you have the ability to think!! But do you realise you are much more likely to become a victim if you carry a gun? http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/ http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJM198606123142406
30 years ICU nursing - please do not tell me I do not know the horrors of the world I am just thankful that my experience has been here where gunshot injuries are rare
Being an ICU nurse doesn't mean you know about all of the horrors of the world. It gets bad in an ICU not doubt, but it gets worse else where. Thanks for being a plugger of holes.
Then you should be aware of what the American college of Paediatricians has to say on gun safety - and the fact you CANNOT TEACH KIDS TO LEAVE GUNS ALONE - well, not reliably anyway And I will admit that it appears that both here and in Canada the biggest influence on the reduction in firearm homicide came from locking guns away
