Seriously...What would it take for a GOD to prove itself?

I'm sure you believe that. Millions of highly functioning people claim a relationship with the person of Jesus Christ. That counts as evidence, my friend.

 

He foreknew that evil people would misuse their freewill and kill Jesus, as predicted in the OT, but good used it for good. Yes, it does make sense. I wouldn't expect it to to a non-believer.

Why do you care?

 

All God has to do is come down and show up for dinner. Or show up on the Late Show or the Oscars. He's omnipresent so it won't be too hard to do.

 

Would you care to explain why God couldn't just forgive human sin without having to kill Jesus first?

 

If God likes football I suggest the Superbowl at halftime.

 

I care because you people brainwash children.

 

People claim a lot of things. However, anecdotal tales are not evidence of anything. What people believe in is generally a result of their culture, and religious brainwashing that takes place at an early age.

 

Read John. He who does not believe in Jesus is condemned.

 

If we're just talking about our creator, I'm sure he could tell me something testable about his creations that nobody knows. If we're talking about a perfect being, there's nothing that could make me believe that because I've seen its imperfect creations.

 

If there really is a God, he left mankind long ago. Maybe he comes back one day as a visitor.

How will humans react in this case? Will they hate him? Will they take him as a liar and imposter? Or will they thank him for spawning the human race?

 

Proof of 'God'? What exactly does that mean? Let's make our question more specific. How about proof of 'Intelligent Design' (ID)? With this question we are asking about some-thing that is intelligent, has intelligence, acts intelligently...AND, acting intelligently (ie, with intent, purpose, direction) becomes the source of ALL other some-things.

With that said...the only real proof of ID necessary is that SOME-THING exists. How do we know some-thing exists? Because we are aware of things that appear to exist separately/distinctly from ourselves. Eg, I am aware of the tree because it appears to be separate/distinct from myself. Thus, some-thing (the tree) exists.

So, Existence has been established. But what about Intelligent Design?

If some-thing exists, there must be order for it to exist. This denotes Design. And Design denotes Intelligence. Hence, even a single sub-atomic 'particle' is proof of Intelligent Design because the existence of a sub-atomic particle requires order. So it is unnecessary to appeal to complex matter (eg, like our bodies) to prove Intelligent Design.

Furthermore, this tells us the argument that 'order came out of disorder' is a contradiction. The concepts of 'chance, randomness, spontaneous generation' become meaningless because they have no place where there is awareness...because where there is awareness, there is existence.

 

I think the fact that our existence is tolerated is proof that there is a God, and that he is merciful.

 

Tell you what, just show us your intelligent designer so we can have a good look at it and find out who designed it - because, obviously, there must have been order to create it and someone must have created that order - oh, wait, that means an infinity of intelligent designers....

What you've done with this argument is replace the unknown beginning with an unknown intelligent designer which you can't describe let alone substantiate. In short, this is a waste of time.

 

There is only Intelligent Design (order), not 'A Designer' per se. Where there is awareness there is existence. And where there is existence there is order. So order is all there is...it is absolute...which means there is no disorder. Hence, there is no delineation between one thing and another thing in terms of order/disorder.

What does all this mean? It means All is One...which means separation must be an illusion. And it is this very illusion of separation that gives rise to awareness, without which there would be no existence. (eg, I am AWARE of the tree because the tree appears separate from MYSELF. So, by experiencing this illusion of SEPARATION I have experienced the illusion of the SELF (ie, IDENTITY). And, by experiencing the SELF, Oneness experiences IT-SELF because All is One.

So yes...order has always been, and always will be. Why? Because if All is One, and separation is an illusion, then there is no true distance (space), no true time, and hence, no true motion, as these are manifestations of the illusion of separation. This makes not only reality an illusion, but also our awareness, and thus our very existence an illusion.

YET, existence is also REAL, because without the illusion of separation there would be no illusion of awareness, no illusion of existence, and hence, no REALITY. So reality is both an illusion AND real. Contradiction, you will find, is fundamental and intrinsic to Oneness, and is what makes existence itself possible. In Creation, there is no black OR white. There is black AND white.

If All is One, then awareness/consciousness, existence, and order are absolute. Thus, the illusion of separation AND Oneness are absolute, which means there's no space, time, motion. Hence, Oneness/Creation has no beginning or end.

The real question is NOT whether there is or is not a 'God'. The real question becomes, "How did the illusion of separation ever emerge from Oneness, and from which all awareness/consciousness, existence, order (space, time, motion), reality emerge?" As you can see, this is a mind-boggling question that has no answer...because without the illusion of separation there would be no Oneness...but without Oneness there would no illusion of separation. It's like the chicken and the egg conundrum, which is really a good analogy. The best 'answer' there is is that BOTH (Oneness & illusion of separation) have always existed. Either BOTH exist, or NEITHER can exist.

In order to truly KNOW Oneness/Creation, the observer would at least have to experience an absolute separation from Oneness/Creation. But then this would remove any feeling/knowing of oneness with Oneness/Creation. (Similar to the way modern scientists analyze objects by relying solely on mechanical/material/physical means, without the essence of being One/feeling Oneness with the object.)

Oneness/Creation can never know it-self absolutely. It can only experience it-self in infinite ways. Why? Because the SELF can never know it-self absolutely without separating it-self from the SELF (which is not possible without removing the SELF, which would then eliminate awareness/consciousness). And, because there is no space/time/motion, it experiences it-self eternally. Hence, Oneness/Creation is both infinite AND eternal.

So, is there a rock so heavy that even God (Oneness/Creation) can't lift it? YES. If there is a rock so heavy that YOU cannot lift it, then God is also having that experience. God can have infinite experiences of it-self...including one where a rock is too heavy to lift. God wants to 'know' it-self...but will never know it-self absolutely, for it can never escape it-self.

 

What do you mean by 'tolerated'?

 

Claims are claims. Evidence is evidence.

Your statement demonstrates an argument ad populum fallacy.

People claim to have been abducted by space aliens. Are these claims proof of space aliens?

Now if these people talking to Jesus could prove it, say by having Jesus provide them with a cure for cancer, that might be viewed as proof.
an argument ad populum is?

 

So using your logic who created God? Does God require intelligent design?

 

This is a joke right? If there was no God would our existence be "tolerated"? To put it another way if we are not being wiped out by God maybe there is no God.

 

Might make more sense to say God IS intelligent design...for it does seem to describe a fundamental nature of Reality. I prefer just the term 'Oneness' because it answers, or is at least a good starting point to answering, all questions.

 

So everything is defined as God?

 

Part joke and part true, imo.

 

YES. If All is One, then separation is an illusion. Hence, ALL things are God...ALL is God. Each of us can be viewed as an aspect of God, experiencing other aspects of God.

Think of a ball with spikes, where the entire ball is God/Oneness/Creation, and each spike is a different person. The spikes are easily distinguishable and appear separated from one another, yet are just parts of the same ball. However, it's this very separation that allows each spike (person) to have an awareness of other spikes (persons). Of course, the number of spikes would be infinite, each one encompassing different things...every-thing from 'subatomic particles' (and 'smaller') to entire universes.

Another good analogy is a hunk of clay. The clay is God/Oneness/Creation. In order for the clay to experience it-self it must be able to separate it-self from it-self. That is, it must be able to generate parts of it-self...and then have those parts become aware of one another. As an example, the clay can form part of it-self into a tree, and another part into a human. The two can then experience each other. Yet, the two will ALWAYS remain the same CLAY. The human will observe the tree being made of bark, roots, fruits, flowers, leaves, cells, etc. But it, like the human, will fundamentally always be the CLAY.

So even the term, "everything is connected", is itself not accurate enough...for the term 'connected' denotes separation. ALL things are simply ONE.

 

Well, I guess that no one without Gods intercession, can prove his existence. Similarly, no one can prove that God does not exist.
When Simon correctly answered Jesus query of who Simon believes Jesus to be. Jesus said that he did not learn it or hear it or surmise or reason it. But that it was a direct revelation to Simon from God the Father. He went on to say that upon this rock of personal revelation he would establish his church, and even the gates of hell would not prevail against it.

 

Yes, that's not an easy question to answer. One must first assume that god would want himself to be found in a way other than by faith alone. Then, one would have to start guessing how he might choose to do that.


BTW: Would you change your religion if David Copperfield made the statue of liberty disappear on live TV? And, we have the various images on the internet of people playing pianos out on a lake or sea, including those that are not miracles, but also are not photoshopped.

I do not suggest that those of 2000 years ago were liars, but there are fairly straight forward alternatives to accepting the various reports as proof of super powers.